acroholicreefer
New member
Right but it is the best option that we have. They are arrurate enough for me to trust the list and raise my suspision on the ones that I question. I don't expext anybody to not make a mistake, just keep it at a minimum.
new Tyree LE... tenuis??
- Thread starter organism
- Start date
dvanacker
DID I SOUNDS SMRT??
Right. But say we drop common names all together (which will never happen anyway).
We have corals that are the same species, maybe even a similar color pattern but one is slightly more vibrant and grows better in captivity than the other. Now how do we differentiate the two?
We have corals that are the same species, maybe even a similar color pattern but one is slightly more vibrant and grows better in captivity than the other. Now how do we differentiate the two?
MammothReefer
Active member
Sorry gotta disagree again, go to your LFS ask them to ID 5 Acros, try it a wholesaler, and the divers..they aren't Id'n either you know how long it would take them to collect there quota for the day if they sat there and Id'd every acro. Yes, there is some guy doing "general" id's for cities/shipping, but if you think some government official is going to be able to tell you the difference between a millipora, and a spathula, or an acanthastrea and a favia.. It ain't happening, nor are they going to spend the time to do it. 200 hard corals.. good to go, they aren't popping open every bag inspecting and resealing them. The ID system in the trade is VERY VERY Loose. Even in your stores outside of say Milli, and Tenuis, Tort, and a few broad distinct acroporas nothing really gets Id (and half the time those are wrong).
Very few people in the "retail/wholesale/sales" end of the industry can or care to ID acros. You look @ a wholesale sheet it's "red Acropora fancy and the price." Acropora B-grade and the price" "Australian Acropora and the price" "Table Acro and the price" Very very generic terms, used to describe them based on broad physical appearances. The cost of acros is 100% Dependent on the Colour vibrancy, Size, if it's wild or cultured and (sometimes generic shape ie all efflo like acros which are easy to spot usually have a similar price, as do all "delicate" type acros. The rarest most interesting species of acro still ends up in the discount bin when it turns brown.
The hobbyist/scientist are the only ones that care. The primary reasons why we hobbyist care is because we want to know is to find out where we should try to place it in our tank. High light, High flow, low light high flow, etc. (and because it's neat to know). But really when it comes to placement we have no need to know the species id. Simply look at the growth/(and if you can colour). Dense coral tons of polyp bright colours.. Upper Reef Crest. Sparse polyp distribution, deeper colours, sparse branchement placement.. Lower flow, lower light...etc.
Personally I've spent A LOT of time studying Verons books/website looking at tons of different acros over the years both when I was a retailer, and as a hobbyist. With that I've come to the conclusion that our current method for identification of acroporas is really not that polished. I think it tries to divide things into to many small groups when alot of acros w/different ids can really be slight mutations of each other. There are species ids that look VASTLY different then each other, and others that get different ids and are very much similar. The means of which things are measured can very on the same colony, even on the same branch. You pull 2 branches from a single colony and depending on where it sits in relation to the other branch there are going to be differences in growth patterns, polyp density.. etc. If it was up to me acros would be divided into groups of "general" corallite shape. Which would mean a lot less coral species but imop that wouldn't be a bad thing as I've found (and I could be wrong here) most of the corals that have very similar shapes come from similar environments, and have similar needs. So arguing over a spathulata, millipora, or a prostrata would really be a mute point as they would all be known as Acorpora MammothReefer 1a.
Last edited:
mammoth i must say your confusing what LE used to be and what LE currently is.
it doesnt stand for proven corals that hold their color. thats where the misleading part of the LE status comes into play
heck some dont even hold the same growth patterns just look at the mother of pearl threads. not to mention i have yet to see the mother colony pics which i asked *** for around 6 months or so ago.(just one example)
case in point here is LE stamps are null anymore and doesnt mean dirt.
it doesnt stand for proven corals that hold their color. thats where the misleading part of the LE status comes into play
heck some dont even hold the same growth patterns just look at the mother of pearl threads. not to mention i have yet to see the mother colony pics which i asked *** for around 6 months or so ago.(just one example)
case in point here is LE stamps are null anymore and doesnt mean dirt.
Allmost
New member
you know who wins from all these ?
the low life LFS, who go to other stores who IMPORT corals, and do not PRICE or SELL based on name "SPS, 45 bucks" buy a bunch, stick them under actinic lighting, chop it into 300 pieces, and sell it at 300% of the price, cause its now LE or asilfhsofhggt ... lol
we have one here in toronto, and many in USA are falling for their "marketing hype" while they purchase ALL their corals from other LFS around here ! lol
really sad ...
the low life LFS, who go to other stores who IMPORT corals, and do not PRICE or SELL based on name "SPS, 45 bucks" buy a bunch, stick them under actinic lighting, chop it into 300 pieces, and sell it at 300% of the price, cause its now LE or asilfhsofhggt ... lol
we have one here in toronto, and many in USA are falling for their "marketing hype" while they purchase ALL their corals from other LFS around here ! lol
really sad ...
MammothReefer
Active member
No, I think you are confusing the 4 different discussion going on in this thread. One is a general ID discussion, the other is a pricing discussion, one is a damn all named corals discussion, and the other is a *** is LE discussion. LE hasn't changed, it's just some title somebody gives there coral to say "this is a limited edition run". That's what "LE" stands for. Limited Edition. Whether or not that coral is the bee's knees or a brown turd whatever there is no official seal of "LE" that requires the 12 Reef tribal council members to approve. Every coral and every frag I have is LE. It's Limited to How many I got.. HA. The reality is some named corals stand the test of time and keep going around in circulation, and others do not it just depends on there popularity and current trends in reefing. Not even necessarily how nice they are. (I love me some chips acropora but you don't see it mentioned much anymore).
You guys give Reeffarmers to much credit they are just another frag farmer w/a website. Just like countless guys here on RC (w/out the website). Check out the propagated section. Why should aquavista99 Orange Crush be any less of an "LE" then a tyree, atlantis, ora, garf or etc? If anybody has success with a wild coral wants to name and sell frags good on them. If it's amazing people will buy it, if it's lame people won't. The whole naming every wild thing as it comes in..eh that's whatever it's for descriptive purposes, and a bit of marketing hype as adults we should be able to look past the fluff and say I like that piece, I don't like that piece. Is it worth 100$ Yes, No.
MammothReefer
Active member
That's because some LFS do direct transhipments, and others only go threw wholesalers. You typically find the shops that do direct transhipments unless they are BIG volume that have close ties w/wholesalers for many years get the best stuff. So if you got a little shop and you don't want to just sell run of the mill stuff you gotta do what you gotta do. When you 20th in line after the big boys and dozens of cherry pickers that run up to LAX you aren't getting the stuff that brings in the High End enthusiast...but typically it isn't the high end enthusiast that pays your rent either (if you have an LFS). More clown fish please.
Allmost
New member
not sure what you mean ... were you trying to justify why its "okay" to buy stuff from the store next to you, and mark it up at 300% of the price and chop it into 12 pieces ? ohh and give it a cool name? lol
MammothReefer
Active member
No, if I was going to do that I would simply say just because the first store undervalues there product, or is to lazy to make frags. That doesn't mean the second store shouldn't be able to maximize there profit if the market supports that behavior. Why do you care what the source is? If you go in the store like the coral think it's worth the money, then buy it. If not then don't. That's the difference between a business and an enthusiast. Some people (most) would rather buy 10 small frags then 1 big piece.
Allmost
New member
then you are now agreeing with what Darryl said last page which you disagreed to back then ...
maximizing profit !
I still am not clear on what your stand is ... why should Dave sell corals at "fair" price if some stores are "maximizing profit" and are okay by you ... see what I mean.
lol
MammothReefer
Active member
I'm not going to banter with you, the manner of your responses, and the fact that you are kissing the 10 post a day mark in a little over year screams troll.
I was pretty clear in my distinction of the difference between a hobbyist and a store. They have very different needs, goals, and interests.
Allmost
New member
check and mate, mate 
Troll ? LOL wow .. I didnt think you would go that low when I point out you being a hypocrite my work is on the net, and I have time to post, but you are welcome to make assumptions ... lol and I only recently found out about cyber reefing LOL I was one of those "discovering" stuff by myself over the past 25 years
so according to you, stores can maximize profit by buying wild colonies at 60 dollars, chop them up, and sell each 1" frag at 100 dollars, and give it a fancy name ... but the hobbists, who buy the coral, care for it and grow it and frag it should sell it at lower rate ? and not maximize their profit ?
okay lol
Troll ? LOL wow .. I didnt think you would go that low when I point out you being a hypocrite
my work is on the net, and I have time to post, but you are welcome to make assumptions ... lol and I only recently found out about cyber reefing LOL I was one of those "discovering" stuff by myself over the past 25 years so according to you, stores can maximize profit by buying wild colonies at 60 dollars, chop them up, and sell each 1" frag at 100 dollars, and give it a fancy name ... but the hobbists, who buy the coral, care for it and grow it and frag it should sell it at lower rate ? and not maximize their profit ?
okay lol
MechEng99
aka Reef'd Up
I've seen the lists that transshippers/wholesalers/divers/etc provide. As mentioned above, they're just guesses to get the coral out the door and through CITES. Heck, I'm a diver, and 99% of the divers I know can only tell you at most that an Acropora is different from a Montipora. The ones pulling the corals up usually aren't hobbyists - they're poverty-stricken uneducated workers. They don't have time or the resources to stay on top of things like the "meat coral" that was previously called a "scolymia" is now acanthastrea dehayesiana. Bottom line, no one in the supply chain cares one hoot over what species a coral truly is until it ends up in the hobbyist/scientist's hands. Sad, but true. Since no one has the resources to properly ID a coral...common names were born (and to document all the color/growth patterns within a species).
Thanks XKCD for summing this thread up:
Last edited:
chrishayes
New member
I've seen the lists that transshippers/wholesalers/divers/etc provide. As mentioned above, they're just guesses to get the coral out the door and through CITES. Heck, I'm a diver, and 99% of the divers I know can only tell you at most that an Acropora is different from a Montipora. The ones pulling the corals up usually aren't hobbyists - they're poverty-stricken uneducated workers. They don't have time or the resources to stay on top of things like the "meat coral" that was previously called a "scolymia" is now acanthastrea dehayesiana. Bottom line, no one in the supply chain cares one hoot over what species a coral truly is until it ends up in the hobbyist/scientist's hands. Sad, but true. Since no one has the resources to properly ID a coral...common names were born (and to document all the color/growth patterns within a species).
Thanks XKCD for summing this thread up:
Ive worked in the wholesale and retail side of marine and freshwater ornamentals with placing these orders as one of many tasks and I can say with certainty that the above is not only true for the folks doing the collecting but also those that are doing the ordering! especially-"they're poverty-stricken uneducated workers" part!lol
acroholicreefer
New member
I think this thread is very informative.
Thanks for pointing that out and I didn't realize that they are that bad. This is certainly not the case with maricultured pieces but I guess if you are talking about wild pieces that I can see your point. Most of the maricultured imports are species specific.
About the names, I personally think that if the coral is truly aquacultured, it should be named after the person who grows it. If you know the species, state it. Joes Blue Stag or Joes Blue Tenuis is good enough for me.
This thread = giant fail.
no doubt Darryl
people accusing others of being a troll jus cuz they take an active roll in the site... and thats where i called it quites lmao... i think Organism has jus given up too... cant blame him though...
I say we let these dudes argue a topic that has nothing to do with the original post, and the 3 of us share some cyber beers and enjoy our system threads :beer:
drink'em if you got'em boys! lol
dvanacker
DID I SOUNDS SMRT??
:beer: I agree....its just time for a truce. Everyone has different experiences and motivations. Changing someones mind is about as easy as.....well it aint easy. Most times its just better to agree to disagree. Hard to do ..but better.
I don't take much personal in this "hobby" and after a disagreement I usually forget and move on. I see to many people on these fish forums get way to worked up about stuff that in the game of real life....well doesnt really matter.
I think this just sums it up...
I don't take much personal in this "hobby" and after a disagreement I usually forget and move on. I see to many people on these fish forums get way to worked up about stuff that in the game of real life....well doesnt really matter.
I think this just sums it up...
organism
code monkey
I sure did, it got hijacked somewhere around page 2 and is now spiraling towards the lock. It's disappointing because the original intent was to just get a dialogue on if LE'ing something that's subpar spoils trust in the brand, and maybe the ethics behind using a brand to start pushing very questionable quality. Seeing a built up brand selling itself down the river is just sad.
Now it's an interesting rorschach, everyone read something into it that wasn't there and started campaigning on their position like there's no tomorrow. Pricing, ocd id'ing, supply and demand, retail/wholesale packing and invoice lists, and did I mention pricing?... Now it's just everyone arguing about how wrong everyone else is.
+1 on those cyber beers :beer:
