Newbie 125 Oceanic Reef Tank....

I

Intermingl

New member
Hi my name is Dustin,
I have been breeding african cichlids for 5-7 years...but now am ready to make the switch to the salty side.....

and im tired of all my expensive fish eating each other, so i decided to do a friendly reef tank...and i decided to get rid of all my 50's, 55's, and 75's and just keep my 125 for this endeavor........*plug*have like 5 tanks for sale in Selma/San Antonio Area *plug*..

i cleaned it out real good and put 120lbs of CaribSea ARAG-ALIVE! live aragonite reef sand ( fuji pink )

tap water(i know) & whole bunch Kent sea salt....haha

and thats where i stand so far.....i knwo i got a long way to go.....but im restrained at this time by my lack of cash......i broke my foot a month ago and been out of work since collecting short-term disability till i can go back.....fun times

filtration at the moment:
magnum 350 canister filter

mag 7 just running in tank to help mix salt for now...maybe used in sump later???

and some 300gph powerhead

still pretty cloudy but i did only do it like an hour ago.......


dechlorinated with prime and some tetra stuff

SSSSOOOOoooooo.....now

im thinkin i just need to find me some live rock? correct?

i really cant afford 5-8 dollars a lb so im up for any suggestions....i also have tanks to trade for live rock if someone is overfolowing wiht it or somehtin.....i need live rock bad....but let me know if im missing anything else, im pretty good with keeping fish but this is my first saltwater tank....and im tryin to do a coral heavy reef tank with lots of reef cleaners......im goin to need you guys help...

i have been a long time member/Follower of the HCCC (Hill Country Cichlid Club) so im sure there are some of you out here too...Hi guys!!......but now i guess im making my way over here to you reef guys......



First of all let me say that my tank is NOT DRILLED/ NO BUILT-IN OVERFLOWS
I do plan on using a sump or wet dry system of some sort...preferrably with a protien skimmer

I do not have a HOB overflow box or anyhting like that yet....but i guess thats my only option without drilling..because remember i do plan on haveig a sump of some sort...Opinions?


i will add onto this for a while to come im sure....all opinions, hints, tricks, secret mystical wisdoms and warnings are welcome at all time...thanks guys
 
Yeah you need live rock. About a pound per gallon is the average. Doesn't all have to be in the tank though. If you like the minimulist look then you could just put alot of the rock in the sump. Look at Eshopps overflow boxes. They are clones of the Lifereef ones (which are top notch as far as quality goes), i have had a eshopps 600gph overflow box and a 800 gph Lifereef running side by side for a while and i can't tell a difference at all.
 
Oh i forgot to mention, Look at MAAST.org Its the local reef club for your area, lots of good used equipment for sale there.
 
I don't mean to come across as negative but you are really setting yourself up for problems and a negative experience with the way you are going. Nine times out of ten you can't use tap water and have a reef tank. You pretty much need live rock. Canister filters are almost always worthless in reef tank. You don't have nearly enough flow. The best advice I can give you is to start over, do A LOT more reading, wait till you're in a financially better place (reef tanks are expensive to properly set up) and stick with tried and true methods for reefkeeping. Good luck.
 
im pumping 900gph right now in the tank...haha you sure thats not enough

and i already said those filters are only on the tank to mix the salt (which i only did that way because its a new set up, maybe still a mistake) and they seem to be doing a good job

im in the middle of getting some live rock.....i am in teh middle of making an overflow and sump filter for the time being till i can buy one....because as i had already said i don't plan on using a canister filter cause it is worthless for reef tnaks....i know this....but thanks

im bored and i know its a long process to set up a salt tank....so im doing what i can when i can....

and i have talked to lfs and local breeders that i knwo through a local fish club here in texas and they said that id be fine with our tap water we have here.....of course or would be better but they said that they use it all the time.....and these are people ive known for years

and whether you meant to or not......you did come off negative.....
so unless you have something a little more constructive to say than "start over" i'd like it if you stayed off my post....no offense

but for someone with 910 posts i was actually hoping to hear some decent advice or words of encouragement....but no....yankees...geez
 
Lol hate to say it, but 900 gph isn't much flow at all. You will want a couple powerheads in the tank as well as your return pump. You will find That it's all about flow with a reef tank. You need tons of it compaired to a freshwater tank.
 
Intermingl said:
im pumping 900gph right now in the tank...haha you sure thats not enough

and i already said those filters are only on the tank to mix the salt (which i only did that way because its a new set up, maybe still a mistake) and they seem to be doing a good job

im in the middle of getting some live rock.....i am in teh middle of making an overflow and sump filter for the time being till i can buy one....because as i had already said i don't plan on using a canister filter cause it is worthless for reef tnaks....i know this....but thanks

im bored and i know its a long process to set up a salt tank....so im doing what i can when i can....

and i have talked to lfs and local breeders that i knwo through a local fish club here in texas and they said that id be fine with our tap water we have here.....of course or would be better but they said that they use it all the time.....and these are people ive known for years

and whether you meant to or not......you did come off negative.....
so unless you have something a little more constructive to say than "start over" i'd like it if you stayed off my post....no offense

but for someone with 910 posts i was actually hoping to hear some decent advice or words of encouragement....but no....yankees...geez
Click to expand...

Calm down. First off, calling me yankee isn't accurate and is offensive to a Texan, I was born in Clear Lake (which is in Houston by the way). I happen to live in Pennsylvania now. I was just trying to help. You are simply going about things in the wrong way and it is obvious that you need to do a lot more reading before you set up a successful reef tank. I see a lot of people on this site and at LFS's that start out on the wrong foot like you and have horrible experiences and then give up. I don't want that for anyone (even people that call me an inaccurate and derogatory name). So, I'm sorry you don't like my advice but it is good advice. I will do as you ask and no longer post on your thread, you obviously don't want to hear what experienced people have to say. By the way, I have approximately 10,000 GPH going through my 125 gallon and I feel like I need to add more. 900 GPH doesn't even equal one of the several pumps in my tank. Best of luck.
 
Given that this is your first tank, I have a couple suggessions.

First, drain the tank dry. This will do two things with the first being using RO/DI water to mix up your salt. My first tank had a bunch of algae problems until I did enough water changes and pulled out enough algae to get it under control. Make the investment now into a RO/DI unit. There are a number of them out there for under $200 (check the sponsor pages for some good ones). You can use the sand you have without a problem but having the right water will save you a ton of grief.

The second reason to drain your tank is to install an overflow. It is much easier to set up a tank with an overflow than to try to add one to an already set up tank. When I upgraded to my second tank, I went drilled and love it. Drilling a tank can be nerve wracking but there are a bunch of videos online on how to do it. Plus this lets you use the sump you mentioned. Personally, I like my system to be fail safe and thats not something you get with a HOB overflow. Check out BeanAnimal's Silent and Safe method in the DIY forum and BeanAnimal's website. Trust me that drilling your tank will help you out a lot in the long run. If you do this right off, you have much more flexability down the road. A sump gives you a place to put the skimmer, heaters, reactors and any other equpiment you need without cluttering up the display.

Speaking of sumps, let me recommend that you consider a very basic setup to start. My setup uses a refugium as the cheato in it allows me to export nutrients. I use an in-sump skimmer so that when it overflows it does so into the sump and not onto the floor. I use two heaters so that ther is a backup with one heater in the sump while the other is in the tank. Both heaters are turned on and off by the controller so that if they stick on, the controller cuts the power to them before they fry the tank. Given the amount of money we put into these systems, having them fail safe is a good way to protect our investment.

Now, onto flow. For most systems you want some flow through the sump (3X to 5X turnover per hour is recommended) but not nearly as much as what you want in the tank. The display should have between 20X and 40X turnover per hour. Thats between 2500 and 5000 gph. While this is just a guideline it should be noted that you are going from african cichlids which are from a lake to fish which come from the wave impacted ocean. Look into the propeller type powerheads that are out there as these move a lot of water for the wattage.

You mentioned not wanting to pay $5 a pound for rock which I understand. Have you looked at dry rock. BulkReefSupply has some really nice dry rock. Combine this with a few pieces of liverock and let the critters multiply for a couple months and you will be amazed at what will show up.

For now, I would keep reading. Check out the stickies at the top of the New to the Hobby forum. Also check out the articles in ReefKeeper magazine.

Given the size of the setup, I would consider taking it a little slow. You really don't want to spend hundreds on equipment that won't work in the long run. If you back track just a little, drill the tank for the overflow, incorporate a sump, and use RO/DI I think you will be amazed at what your system will be like in just 6 months.

Hope that helps.
RocketEngineer
 
RocketEngineer said:
Given that this is your first tank, I have a couple suggessions.

First, drain the tank dry. This will do two things with the first being using RO/DI water to mix up your salt. My first tank had a bunch of algae problems until I did enough water changes and pulled out enough algae to get it under control. Make the investment now into a RO/DI unit. There are a number of them out there for under $200 (check the sponsor pages for some good ones). You can use the sand you have without a problem but having the right water will save you a ton of grief.

The second reason to drain your tank is to install an overflow. It is much easier to set up a tank with an overflow than to try to add one to an already set up tank. When I upgraded to my second tank, I went drilled and love it. Drilling a tank can be nerve wracking but there are a bunch of videos online on how to do it. Plus this lets you use the sump you mentioned. Personally, I like my system to be fail safe and thats not something you get with a HOB overflow. Check out BeanAnimal's Silent and Safe method in the DIY forum and BeanAnimal's website. Trust me that drilling your tank will help you out a lot in the long run. If you do this right off, you have much more flexability down the road. A sump gives you a place to put the skimmer, heaters, reactors and any other equpiment you need without cluttering up the display.

Speaking of sumps, let me recommend that you consider a very basic setup to start. My setup uses a refugium as the cheato in it allows me to export nutrients. I use an in-sump skimmer so that when it overflows it does so into the sump and not onto the floor. I use two heaters so that ther is a backup with one heater in the sump while the other is in the tank. Both heaters are turned on and off by the controller so that if they stick on, the controller cuts the power to them before they fry the tank. Given the amount of money we put into these systems, having them fail safe is a good way to protect our investment.

Now, onto flow. For most systems you want some flow through the sump (3X to 5X turnover per hour is recommended) but not nearly as much as what you want in the tank. The display should have between 20X and 40X turnover per hour. Thats between 2500 and 5000 gph. While this is just a guideline it should be noted that you are going from african cichlids which are from a lake to fish which come from the wave impacted ocean. Look into the propeller type powerheads that are out there as these move a lot of water for the wattage.

You mentioned not wanting to pay $5 a pound for rock which I understand. Have you looked at dry rock. BulkReefSupply has some really nice dry rock. Combine this with a few pieces of liverock and let the critters multiply for a couple months and you will be amazed at what will show up.

For now, I would keep reading. Check out the stickies at the top of the New to the Hobby forum. Also check out the articles in ReefKeeper magazine.

Given the size of the setup, I would consider taking it a little slow. You really don't want to spend hundreds on equipment that won't work in the long run. If you back track just a little, drill the tank for the overflow, incorporate a sump, and use RO/DI I think you will be amazed at what your system will be like in just 6 months.

Hope that helps.
RocketEngineer
Click to expand...

+10!

well said! I drilled my tank and was sooooooo glad I did. trust me you will love it drilled. and use one of your empty tanks as a sump, just glue in some acrylic baffles with aquarium safe silicone and you're good to go. you can put your pump down there, your protein skimmer and heaters! not to mention a refugium with some cheato algae. definitely read up some more. look at glass-holes.com and check out their overflow kits. that's the route I went and drilled my overflow and 2 returns myself. hey if a girl like me can do it, so can you! :wildone:

you can check out my build thread for ideas as well. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1917666
 
advice thank you.....

ok i guess i was confused from turnover to "flow" as you put it(my mistake)

but these are the things i was looking to have answered....not be berated for leaving them out....

id really hate to drill my tank
 
I'm in the same exact boat as you. I have been doing african cichlids for the past four years and have now decided to go to saltwater. I wanted to use my 75 or 125 gallon tanks since I already had them and jump right in. After reading for the past few months, I have decided to sell my number of unused tanks on craigslist and use the money to invest into a tank that is already dilled as I didn't feel comfortable drilling a tank by myself either.

Join your local reef club and deals will pop up on there from time to time and when you are ready, jump on one. Take it slow. One of the best thigns that I heard on here was only bad things happen fast in this hobby. Patience is definitely needed and rewarded.
 
I started down the same path as you. Did (malawi) Cichlids for about 9 years and then made the move directly to reef.

As echoed before, drain it and get rid of the tapwater. You're setting yourself up for failure.
you really should look at getting a drilled tank. While you can manage a reef tank without a sump, i can only try to imagine how difficult it would be without a sump.
 
You should definitely keep one of your smaller tanks for the sump unless you're going to pay to custom build yourself an acrylic one. You can save some money right there!

If I were going to start a tank that big, I would make my own rock. It's called Aragocrete. Google it and you'll see lots of instructions on how to make it. BAsically, your making your own dry rock this way.

I can tell your itchin' to get a reef tank running. We all are. :) But trust all of us on this, you cannot rush a good reef tank. It's all about planning. And it all starts with water quality, which should be RO/DI. If you were doing a fish only tank for Angels or Tangs I'd say you would be ok with where your going so far. But if you want corals, and you're a newbie with a 125 gallon tank, this is going to be all about planning. You need to think about specific types of corals you want. Your going to be spending a LOT of money on lighting. If you really wanted to do this on the cheaper side, you probably should have started with one of the 50 gallon tanks. Even so, not cheap.

And remember, in the grand context of things, if you were to fill your entire 125 gallon tank with corals and fish, even fairly common ones, you will have 1000's and 1000's of dollars worth of stuff living in there. LIVING in there. It's alive. Please don't take their lives lightly. If we can't afford to get the things it takes to keep something alive, then none of us should take on the responsibility of even starting it.
 
Intermingl,

Turn over is a generic term for how many times a tank moves. If you had a 10g tank with a pump that moved 100 gallons per hour, you would have 10X turnover (100gph divided by 10g tank). In your case, you will want to use several powerheads. In my 75g tank I have two that put out 900gph each so my tank has a turn over of 24X (900*2/75) not counting my sump return. Given that the MaxiJet powerheads now come with the propeller setup already in the box, you could get 1300gph for 24 bucks online.

As my tank has progressed, I have noticed some areas need more flow so I will be adding another powerhead soon.

All you need to drill a tank is an electric drill, a diamond coated hole saw, a template (plastic works) and a watering can. Oh, and the nerve to do it. A battery powered drill is recommended. The template can be made by using the hole saw to cut the hole in a small piece of plastic. Tape down the template where you want to drill, get the area wet, and start slowly with the drill. Once you have a circular groove you don't need the template. Keep getting the area wet and every now and again remove the hole saw and rinse out the groove. Use the weight of the drill and don't force it. The drill bit is grinding the glass so you need to keep the area flooded and it will take time.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/video?file_name=102

Look into the various sump designs. As you already have the tanks, you can use one of them as a sump. All it would take is some pieces of plate glass from a local glass shop (I got mine cut with polished edges for 40 bucks). That plus a tube of silicone and a weekend and you have a sump.

Its possible to do an amazing setup on a budget. You just have to be willing to do things yourself and know you will eventually want to upgrade. In my case I built almost my entire setup. While the stand wasn't cheap, I am very glad I did it as the stand came out amazing. Drilling the tank and making the sump let me adjust the design to what I wanted to accomplish in my setup, a tank that is fail safe, can go for a few days without any supervision, and provides for the critters in it. Keep in mind what you want out of this tank as you move forward.

RocketEngineer
 
Rocket engineer had great advice. I started with a non drilled 125 and it was a mess, I also started with tap water and that ended up giving me a ton for hair algae over time. I ditched the tank and reset up in a drilled 125 and used ro di this time. Much much better and don't need to worry about the water going into my sump all the time. Good luck.
 
Few things. I did not see a skimmer you will need one for sure. Keep the 75 gallon tank and use it as a sump. Get rid of the canister filter they are good for fresh water but trash for marine tanks. Get a Mag 12 for a sump return, some Vortecs or Korilias for water movement and some good T5 or Metal Halide lights. You will also need a few test kits; Ca, Ph, Alk, PO4, NO3 and Mag.
 
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