Newbie Corner Feedback Thread

[WaterKeeper]

Do you clean it with RO/DI between uses? A little dried salt in the sample chamber makes a big difference Scott. There also can be a bit of time for the ATC to react so the next measurement it closer to the actual temperature of the tank.

Alan,

Yes high organics reduce oxiygen and therefore lower ORP. That was a good example you gave with nitrification. You could use it to indicate major problems with a skimmer but is really would be hard to pin it down to an exact problem with any one system if the ORP is low. Here is an old ariticle by Randy that gives you the gory details ORP

 

[EnglishRebel]

Wow I just read the "easy to understand" portion of Randy's article and I'm tired already:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: I didn't realize that inside the nice quiet peaceful aquarium, with those lovely little Nemos swimming around there was such a major armed conflict raging.
I will have to lie down for a while before I read the rest of his article. :spin2: :spin2:

 

[WaterKeeper]

:lol: More tiring than all that construction huh? ORP is somewhat complicated anyway. I tend to overlook it unless running an ozonator, something that Randy does.

 

[EnglishRebel]

I'm taking a little breather right now -- waiting on the big brown UPS truck to arrive.

'What Can Brown Do For You Today'

He can bring my nice big Berlin sump, that's what he can do. :lol:

 

[Pacifica]

I have finished reading the RK MAG articles for newbies. Thank you for writing these. It is the best introductory material I've found online. I do have a question though.

From reading the articles, I get the impression that, as a poor grad student, I should not attempt to enter this hobby. I am sure that I cannot afford to operate a 100 g tank.

Now I am currently running 4 central american cichlid tanks; 55g, 29g, 20g, and 10g. I think that feasibly, I could convert one of the smaller of these into a reef tank with a couple of small fish and some soft coral and sell some or all of the remaining freshwater set-ups in order to aquire capital for equipment and inhabitants.

So, I have 2 options. I can attempt the above, which I understand is not ideal for a newbie. Or, I can wait a few years until I have money and a house (assuming my degree will be worth something) and then do at least a 100g.

So to the experienced reefers, I ask for your advice as to which option I should choose. Is it 100g minimum or nothing that you suggest? Or would you still advocate for someone to enter this hobby, even if the largest tank he can possibly afford is much smaller than ideal?

Thanks for your help.

 

[EnglishRebel]

While I can't speak for others there are many who have nano tanks check the forum here Nano Reef Tank Forum .
I can't do the nice swimming fishes, welcome to Reef Central animated banner like the mods can but

WELCOME TO REEF CENTRAL

 

[Paul B]

From
"Water Chemistry for Advanced Aquarists"
Guido Huckstedt 1973

Oxidation is either the adding of oxygen or the removal of hydrogen; reduction is either removal of oxygen or addition of hydrogen. If a substance is therefore, oxidized through the removal of hydrogen, oxygen is not involved in the process of oxidation; this is also true where a compound is reduced by the addition of hydrogen. In both cases, oxygen can play a part in the oxydation-reduction effect, and in all cases, no matter how the components overlap, peroxide quickly causes a combination which is harmless to the aquarium.

Aquarium water differs from clean natural water most predominately in the tendency of it's electrochemical equilibrium. In large or very fast running waters the tendancy is always directed towards oxidation. In an aquarium, even large tanks with good water movement, the tendency is always directed towards reduction. In this respect an aquarium is remarkably different from a coral reef or mountain brook, but there islittle difference in the actual content of molecular oxygen, optical purity or other striking effects.

Half the battle is already won if we allow the bottom layer to benefit from the circulation. To do this, we put a nylon net covered frame on the bottom and cover this with the bottom sand (not too fine) through which the water will flow from below upwards, usually a partial flow is sufficient.

Dam, that sounds awfully like a slow running RUGF but what do I know.

Anyway Waterkeeper did you ever read any of Guido's book?

Most of it goes right over my head and the book is old.
But this book is where I first got my ideas from to start my tank.
I don't think the term ORP was used them but reduction instead.
You would know better than me. :smokin:

 

[WaterKeeper]

Hi Pacifica
[welcome]

Environmental economist huh? Don't ask me, I skipped the business classes and took environmental science instead.


That is a very tough question and I'm not sure if I have a good answer. Yes, a marine tank is going to cost you some cash. For a ground floor 100 gallon I would guess at least $2500. It is a big chunk of change for a student (for the life of me I don't know how some of the students on here afford the hobby).

It is not just cash. A new tank also has an overhead in time and labor. When starting out there are so many things that need to be done that it can become a real hardship for someone with limited time to spare.

I always advocate going large as it pays off in the long run but converting one of the FW tanks to a small system may be wiser. Now you would mainly need better lighting, LR, LS, test kits and a skimmer with some extra tank circulation. LR and LS for a 100 gallon can easily cost $800 dollars, so getting some LR and LS for a 29 cuts that cost down to around $300. Lighting might run less than $200 and a HOB skimmer and a DIY closed loop can be acquired for around $250. That may be a better option while you have limited income. Once free of school you will have reef experience and be able to make informed decisions when you look at a larger system.

 

[WaterKeeper]

Anyway Waterkeeper did you ever read any of Guido's book?

Most of it goes right over my head ...

Yes Paul I have but I don't have an autographed copy like you do.

I mentioned to Alan that what I said in my post was rudimentary. ORP is quite complex and it is easy to become confused when reading literature on the subject. As you may guess, not everyone agrees on all aspects of the theory.

 

[Paul B]

Wow, is that what these things cost. I had no idea, where do you people get the money for all this stuff? :lol:

I guess you could try E Bay, I am sure people are getting out of the hobby every day. Even on RC you will find posts every day where someone is selling everything and quitting. I don't know why but they do.

 

[WaterKeeper]

???

I think you missed the post by Pacifica. He's not asking about ORP.

 

[Paul B]

No I diden't miss the post from Pacifica (or Atlantica)

In between Pacifica's post I was asking you if you ever heard of the guy I posted.
Listen to the words that are coming out of my mouth,

Listen to me now and understand later (Hans and Frans, Saturday nite live) :lol:

Pacifica, they sell this stuff used on this site all the time. It's a freekin fortune to buy it new and live rock was made thousands of years ago so "new" rock is really old anyway.
The rock is the largest expense until you get Waterkeeper's bill. :smokin:

 

[WaterKeeper]

Shhh Paul. You'll blow it. Most Newbies think I work Pro bono until they get the bill.

 

[EnglishRebel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13955976#post13955976 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
From
"Water Chemistry for Advanced Aquarists"
Guido Huckstedt 1973

Oxidation is either the adding of oxygen or the removal of hydrogen; reduction is either removal of oxygen or addition of hydrogen. If a substance is therefore, oxidized through the removal of hydrogen, oxygen is not involved in the process of oxidation; this is also true where a compound is reduced by the addition of hydrogen. In both cases, oxygen can play a part in the oxydation-reduction effect, and in all cases, no matter how the components overlap, peroxide quickly causes a combination which is harmless to the aquarium.

Aquarium water differs from clean natural water most predominately in the tendency of it's electrochemical equilibrium. In large or very fast running waters the tendancy is always directed towards oxidation. In an aquarium, even large tanks with good water movement, the tendency is always directed towards reduction. In this respect an aquarium is remarkably different from a coral reef or mountain brook, but there islittle difference in the actual content of molecular oxygen, optical purity or other striking effects.

Half the battle is already won if we allow the bottom layer to benefit from the circulation. To do this, we put a nylon net covered frame on the bottom and cover this with the bottom sand (not too fine) through which the water will flow from below upwards, usually a partial flow is sufficient.

Dam, that sounds awfully like a slow running RUGF but what do I know.

Anyway Waterkeeper did you ever read any of Guido's book?

Most of it goes right over my head and the book is old.
But this book is where I first got my ideas from to start my tank.
I don't think the term ORP was used them but reduction instead.
You would know better than me. :smokin:

Paul
I was thinking -- is this guy a retired electrician or a closet chemist I took a little electrical theory but thought I must have been asleep when they discussed the concept of oxidation although it's good to know the principal when you are dealing with aluminum wire and using anti-oxidant gel for the connections
Then I saw where you attributed your post to Guido. :rollface:

 

[Paul B]

Then I saw where you attributed your post to Guido.

What did you think, I made that stuff up?
I was an electrician. :lol:

And I diden't get to go to no college, nope. not me.
I aint never had the chance. :bum:

 

[EnglishRebel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13957038#post13957038 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
What did you think, I made that stuff up?
I was an electrician.

Initially YES Electricians like to create this aura -- like they're the keeper of the sacred energy source. Then you realize that the aura is just caused by a short circuit somewhere. Probably from connecting a hot to ground.

 

[Pacifica]

Thanks for the warm welcome and for the advice. I'm gonna start planning out the 29.

 

[Paul B]

Initially YES Electricians like to create this aura -- like they're the keeper of the sacred energy source

But we are :lol:

 

[WaterKeeper]

That pet rabbit of yours, the one with the drum, is a real pain however.

 

[EnglishRebel]

Wow -- where did you get that photo of Paul WaterKeeper? :lol: I meant where did you get that photo of Paul -- WaterKeeper.
These non-informative replies at least bump the thread (and amuse us)