Nitrates are killing me!

Re: Nitrates are killing me!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9033322#post9033322 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by onehundred20
4" dsb fairly new switched from BB about a month ago.

Give your sand bed a little more time. I installed a DSB and my NO3 still measured 30ppm for 3 months after. Nothing changed and I thought DSBs were all hype. Then I measured one day, zip for NO3. Haven't had a problem since.

It is accurate though, the fish you are keeping are rather messy and not helping the cause.
 
red sea and a salifert.....now I tested my make up water today with red sea and it read 20 while salifert still reads 0...

tank water reads 50 with salifert and 20 with red sea.
 
im about to throw in the towel though and buy a FO tank....Its getting really frustrating I read and read, ive bought everything I need to run a successful tank....but I still keep loosing my corals or they just brown out....and the only logical cause I can think of is nitrates because its the only nutrient I cant keep in check. Its been over a year and its still not solved and im begining to think I should save my money.
 
Re: Re: Nitrates are killing me!

Re: Re: Nitrates are killing me!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9040710#post9040710 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rhodesholar
Give your sand bed a little more time. I installed a DSB and my NO3 still measured 30ppm for 3 months after. Nothing changed and I thought DSBs were all hype. Then I measured one day, zip for NO3. Haven't had a problem since.

It is accurate though, the fish you are keeping are rather messy and not helping the cause.

this is what im hoping for....hopefully the dsb will keep my crappy fish in line.
 
A stock G3 isnt nearly big enough for big dirty fish like that.


It probably would need to pull 3 times the air to handle that load. Look into meshmod, or buy a better skimmer. The ASMs are really sub par.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9036343#post9036343 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by onehundred20
Yes I tested my water source(RO/DI) and before I changed my filters it was the culprit, it was testing 10 or so but I changed my filters and its back to 0.

I tried the sugar method and all I got was bad cyno=/

That was a sign of phosphate, have you tested for phosphate?
 
sounds to me like you went from BB to DSB and you don't have the bacteria and living organism to break down waste in the sandbed... Even more so you have waste probably growing in your sandbed. Did you seed the sandbed and even if so you need to wait a few months for it to become active. Once this happens it will buffer your high fish load. Adding a DSB to a barebottom is almost like a new startup due to the fact it can accommodate waste but have no way to break it down. Make sure you seed the sand with someone else's sand and get it going right. Give it a few months and should be tip top. Till then you will have a nitrate problem, resolved by water changes. DONT SIPHONE SAND.
 
ive tested for phosphates just not witha real good test, comes out to zero....I run a phoband reactor with rowaphos.

No the DSB hasnt kicked in yet as it is really new, yes its seeded with my own sand. Im hoping that this sandbed will help the problem....

Do you guys really think that is a high bioload I always thought it was really low compared to what I see in other tanks, but then again those 2 fish equal like 4 they way they crap.
 
Nitrate problems

Nitrate problems

You are not alone... My nitrates are off the charts. They are reading 40 and above at times. I can't seem to get them in check. I need help... Water changes are done once a week, about 15%. I have even taken out the filter pads from the 2 rena XP3 canister filters. That seem to make them drop, but the rose up again. Im not up to speed on the short hand, so you may need to spell it out for me.

By the way, ive looked to place an avatar, but can't seem to find where to place it.

Thanks
 
you can also look into a coil denitrator. How ever this would just be a band-aid and your best bet is either modify your skimmer or get a better one

hth
 
I have an article for you to consider. Here it is, from my site:

Nitrates: They Can Be Beaten Down Into Submission.

Nitrates are a part of nature in the ocean, and correspondingly in our tanks. As waste breaks down in your aquarium, it cycles from ammonia to nitrite to nitrates. The first two are highly toxic to marine life, and we make it a point to make sure our tanks test zero for these. However, nitrates aren’t as bad, and sometimes are even a little beneficial.

Specifically, few organisms need nitrates. Both micro and macro algae love the stuff, while fish tolerate it. Invertebrates suffer if the levels are too high, but a little is required to keep clams happy. In our goal to match NSW as closely as possible, we strive to keep nitrates down to a minimum at 10 ppm or less.

First things first -- what is causing the nitrates in your tank? Bioballs, biowheels, filter pads, foam blocks & tubes, and under gravel filters all contribute to the production of nitrates. Overfeeding is another cause, and a lack of water changes will be another factor.

Nitrates are in the water column, not your substrate or rockwork. Frequent large water changes will quickly reduce the amounts of nitrates present in your system. I battled with nitrates for years, even when using Nitrate Sponge on a weekly basis. I’d change 5 gallons in my 29 gallon tank and see the nitrates drop from 80 to 60ppm, only to rise again. I’d cringe when I’d run a new test and see the fluid bright red before the timer was even set!

Once I removed the 3 year old under gravel filter & my Penguin Biowheel filter filled with bioballs, I was finally on track. I did three 10 gallon water changes in one week, or 33% at a time. Nitrates were down to 20ppm. I became more meticulous with my water changes, changing 7 - 10 gallons each time every two weeks.

Later on that year, I added a sump & refugium to that tank. The saying “Dilution is the Solution to Pollution” proved to be absolutely true. The macro algae in the refugium as well as the small sandbed helped denitrify my tank, and nitrates are ranging from 0 - 2ppm with a water change only being done every other month.

Last November I bought an existing 55 gallon tank filled with 7 fish, 120 lbs of live rock and crushed coral substrate. The previous owners never tested their water, and the nitrates were 200ppm or more. Through a series of major water changes in those first two weeks, nitrates were lowered without stressing the fish. The substrate was replaced with a DSB, and the canister filters with biowheels were removed as a sump was incorporated. Nitrates are down to 7ppm after three months, and only one fish was lost during that period (probably due to starvation… it never looked healthy).

If your tank is suffering from high nitrate levels, the success of your reef will depend on your being able to get this under control. Changing 100% of the water would be the ideal, but it may shock your corals, fish and invertebrates in the process. A more gradual way is recommended.

55 gal Reef Example: Make up 20 gals of fresh saltwater in a trashcan in front of your tank. Drain 10 gals of tank water into the 20 gals of new water, and let that mix. Pump 10 gals of that water back into your tank, and let the power heads mix that water up in your tank for a minute or so. Then repeat this three more times. Dispose of the now polluted 20 gals of water. Make up another 20 gals of fresh saltwater, and repeat this procedure. As long as your temperature and salinity match the tank, your inhabitants won’t be affected adversely, and with each rotation of water, the nitrates are being diluted and removed from your tank.

Simply pulling out all of the water in one massive water change puts stress on your entire tank. Doing small water changes consistently won’t bring nitrate levels down. At best, it will maintain them at their current levels. Using the example above, a tank that was at 80ppm would be around 30ppm after a couple of hours work and your population will be happy and unaffected. Once your nitrate levels drop, they are easily kept low with regular water changes, as well as the use of a DSB and macro algae.

Your tank will be healthier, your reef happier and the nitrate problem fixed!

------------------------

Huge water changes back to back will solve this, and once they are low they will stay low. When you test* your nitrate, are you holding the beaker at an angle with the card behind it? If so, be sure you look at the matching color, then divide by 10.

You may need to seed your sand bed with two more cups of livesand from someone in your area.

If you modify the skimmer's impellar with mesh material, it'll work much better. I know because I tried it out myself.

*Salifert kit
There is no reason to give up. It isn't that bad a reading.
 
I appreciate the help melev, the salifert kit I have says to look from the top down while holding it over the whtie part of the paper, i guess maybe I can do it from the side like you said which is prolly easier.
 
Try the Purigen! It's similar to running carbon, but it is very small white beads and it can be recharged. I was having nitrate problems myself, not quite as high though, around 20, doing weekly 20% changes just to maintain it between 15-20. I had a cannister running that I removed everything from and ran it empty for a while. It didn't change the nitrates at all. I finally put some Seagel (carbon & phosphate media) and Purigen into the cannister and within a week my nitrates had fallen to less than 10, they are now about 3 after no water changes for over 3 weeks. I'm using the Salifert kit for testing.

At least that will buy you some time until your DSB establishes. I'm using a 100ml bag on a 65g tank.
 
To help kick start the sand bed, buy a bottle of seachem stability.

Its bacteria in a bottle meant for cycling a new tank. It supplies a blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria.
Along with a carbon source it should help get the sandbed up and running faster.

Once its established your nitrates will be a thing of the past.

For the short term take Melev's excellent advice with water changes.
 
Another thing.
You stated that you installed a 4 inch sandbed.
What kind of sand? I mean what particle size?
 
This sounded like a tank owner doing everything by the book and deligently yet still not able to get nitrate under control. I wish you the best of luck and find a way to finally break the pattern, because whatever will work for you would probably be something everyone of us like to know about. At this point the easiest thing I can think of is a better and bigger skimmer. How much skimmate does our G3 remove? G3 skimmers are actually pretty good for what I have used and seen. Maybe it is not in the most efficient running. Or patiently wait for the DSB to kick in.

Again good luck!
 
How fast is you cheato growing.

With a phosban reactor you may create a situation where the cheato is not growing fast enough due to phosphate limitation.

Once your nitrates get that high it is very hard to get them back down.

What I think happened to you was that your RO/DI was producing nitrates and if you were using that water for top off then your nitrates would get really high really quickly.

Now you have the source of the nitrates fixed you have to bring them down. That is easier said then done. At the beginning it will seem like the water changes are doing nothing and the nitrates will be down for a day and then will go right back up. It will seem like it is a loosing battle but with 3-4 weeks of hard work (30 gallon changes 2x a week or more) you should be in a lot better shape.

Do you blow off your rocks when you do a water change? If not then try it and you will be amazed at the crap that will blow out of your rocks.

Once you get your nitrates down you are doing all of the right things and they will stay down. The only major change that I would recommend is a better skimmer.

I now use a pinpoint nitrate monitor and have used red sea and salifert before and the salifert was much closer to the actual nitrate reading.

I had a similar nitrate problem in the summer (~50ppm) caused by the RO/DI filter and now they are down to 5 ppm. It just took a lot of hard work and patience.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9044284#post9044284 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zedar
Another thing.
You stated that you installed a 4 inch sandbed.
What kind of sand? I mean what particle size?

I used quickcrete from lowes, also place some caribsea over it so it wouldnt blow around so much.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9044325#post9044325 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jacmyoung
This sounded like a tank owner doing everything by the book and deligently yet still not able to get nitrate under control. I wish you the best of luck and find a way to finally break the pattern, because whatever will work for you would probably be something everyone of us like to know about. At this point the easiest thing I can think of is a better and bigger skimmer. How much skimmate does our G3 remove? G3 skimmers are actually pretty good for what I have used and seen. Maybe it is not in the most efficient running. Or patiently wait for the DSB to kick in.

Again good luck!

Ill let you know if I get this figured out...its so frustrating lol....at least my orange cap grows like crazy and is colorful...got it at 1" now its like 10" wide, apparently it likes nitrates.
 
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