No ammonia/high nitrites/low nitrates -- what's going on?

[Dag]

I have had some tank losses. My readings are

No detectable ammonia
.4 ppm nitrites
3.7 nitrates

I have a DSB in both main tank and refugium. Why are my nitrites so high? What can I do? I don't overstock or overfeed. Do you think the high nitrites are responsible for my losses?

Other parameters seem fine. Here are the tank specs:

Tank Specifications

- 200 gallon display (73ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚L x 24ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚W x 27ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚H)
- Approximately 180 lbs live rock added on 6/25/03
- 3 ReefOptix III Metal Halide Pendants ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 250W each with 10,000 K bulb
- 2 VHO Actinic bulbs hung 3ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ from water
-Circulation loop through sump ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Iwaki 100 RLT ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ alternate flow between pipes with 3-way motorized valve on each side of center overflow box
- Closed loop with GRI 520 alternate flow between pipes with 3-way motorized valve on each side of tank
- 45 gallon sump
- CS-12-1 Euroreef skimmer
- 40 gallon refugium
- Temp 79.2 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 80
- PH 8.05 ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ 8.2
- Salinity is approx. 1.025
- Calcium above 400
- Dkh 10 - 11
- DI/RO water
-No ammonia
- Nitrates 3-9 ppm
- Nitrites .4 ppm
- Phosphate .3 ppm
- Small amounts of caulerpa in refugium

Livestock

7 Fish

Corals: a bubble, mushrooms, ricordea, encrusting gorgonian, torch corals, blastomussa, an orange monticap, lots of halimeda, maroon mushroom, zoos, green/brown pulsing xenia, lemnalia, an elegance, daisy polyps, tree coral and colt coral (albeit bleached), yellow polyps and a frogspawn

Miscellaneous

Coralline algae grows well
Halimeda grows well
5ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ DSB in main tank ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ oolitic sand
6ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ DSB in refugium ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ oolitic sand

 

[dragon_slayer]

sounds like you have had something med/large sized die off in the tank and it has caused a partial cycle.

hth
kc

 

[Dag]

Sorry, new kit. Nitrites are .1 ppm. Will more skimming help bring down nitrites?

 

[dragon_slayer]

anything you do to take DOC out of the tank before it can break down will reduce all 3 steps in the nitrogen cycle, skimmers do exactly that. also you might want to do a fair sized water change.

hth
kc

 

[Dag]

what is DOC?

 

[dragon_slayer]

disolved organic compounds.

kc

 

[Dag]

My skimmer was always set low, removing maybe a thick 1/2 - 1 cup every few days or more; I have it turned up so it's now removing a thinner 3 cups a day, at least.

 

[dragon_slayer]

that helps remove the DOC's before they can break down causing the nitrogen cycle. IMO everyone should use the wetter foams, makes your skimmer more efficient, it does use a little more salt but its well worth it.

have a good day.
kc

 

[Dag]

kc, how much do you feed everyday, approximately. Thinking my losses were caused by underfeeding, I recently stepped up to a shot glass of mysis shrimp and 1" x 1" piece of homemade chopped up shrimp and other stuff.

 

[dragon_slayer]

it's hard to say how much i feed daily. i have 7 systems up and running and i feed them different amounts of different foods daily, with most times more then once per day.

i'd be what most folks call an 'overfeeder'. but i am also one of the people who belive you can not overskim a tank. i run my skimmers 24/7 and i try to keep them very well oversized.

my only tank that requires extra control on water quality is my predator tank which has 25ppm NO3 (some people think that is low for a predator tank, i do not). i use a NO3 reduction coil on this tank to keep the levels donw.

hth
kc

 

[Dag]

As between more frequent water changes and wetter foam, I would think the latter is better than the former, and of course both would be ideal.

 

[dragon_slayer]

IMO if it was more convenient and didn't cost so much, I'd prefer a water change over skimming any day. if i could i'd have my tanks feed new water continousaly.


the secret to pollution is dilution.

kc

 

[Dag]

If you had the choice to drain 20 gallons, or skim 20 gallons, wouldn't you rather do the latter?

 

[dragon_slayer]

either way i am going to have to add back 20 gallon to the tank. so in that aspect yes i would prefer the skimmer. because it is going to pull our more DOC then just sucking 20 gallon out with a siphon hose.

but i dont think it's realistic to pull out 20g per day with a skimmer and i'd hope i never did anyways, topping off 6g per day from evaporation and the 1g of skimmet i have to replace is a PITA as it is.

kc

 

[Dag]

I have an automatic top off, the collection cup on my protein skimmer drains to my house drain, and my salt water reservoir sits above the sump (filled by RO/DI). I got the toys, now only if my corals would grow.

 

[dragon_slayer]

keep in mind that when you use a waste drain on your skimmer, it makes the owner a bit lazy about regular cleaning of the collection cup's riser tube. this drematicaly cuts down on skimmer performance.

other then that, sounds like you have the setup. with proper lighting, water chemestry, flow and food your corals should be growing.

just noticed this thread is in Anthony's personal section, sorry for stepping in Anthony.

kc

 

[Dag]

you didn't step in, you stepped up. Don't know if Anthony read this and his silence implies agreement with your comments, or whether he hasn't read it yet.

 

[dragon_slayer]

i'v had a few PM's with Anthony last week and he has been tied up quite a bit. Trust me he likes to help out and will make comment when time permits. he's always went out of his way to help with any questions i have asked of him.

kc

 

[Anthony Calfo]

sorry for the delay in reply my friends... I've been bogged down with work/travel as of late.

I'm not sure I have much of value to add here. Some comments though:

the excellent skimmer you have here (Euroreef... one of my all around favs) is almost certainly underperforming. Less than a full cup of dark skimmate daily indicates it is not tuned or tweaked as best as it could be (or not installed properly/ideally - should be drawing water from a very stable/staic body of water and first/raw from the overflow... not merely the open/fluctuating sump).

Speaking to the Water changes vs. skimmer (or anything else)... there is no comparison. And no way to avoid water changes (why would anyone want to?).

Water changes dilute undesirables and replensish necessary elements. Not filtratative process can replenish. And unless we can define exactly what "they" (skimmers/filtwers, etc) are taking out and understand it (how much is coming out that is good/bad... how much of each needs to come back in... and what elements are ignored completely)... then how can we weigh that against the merit of a water change?

The adage stands true: "Dilution is the solution to pollution."

No such thing as too many waterchanges

And lastly, it is common to underfeed. I would agree/suggest that you step up yor feeding frequency if not amount (vary the foods too... but avoid those dreadful bottled supplements).

Best regards to all,

Anthony

 

[Dag]

Less than a full cup of dark skimmate daily indicates it is not tuned or tweaked as best as it could be (or not installed properly/ideally - should be drawing water from a very stable/staic body of water and first/raw from the overflow... not merely the open/fluctuating sump).

My sump design ensures that only water from the overflow goes to sump. It hits a settling chamber, goes through two baffles and then feeds the skimmer. I'm not sure how the water could be "static," since there's always a flow through the sump. Perhaps I don't force the bubbles up high enough because sometime it then cup overflows (which is not a huge deal since the skimmer is in the sump). I adjust the height of the bubbles with a gate valve. Is it normal to have to constantly tweak the height of these bubbles every day or every couple of days?

How much skimmate should I be pulling it out?