No growth and other problems - start over?

[timger]

Hi guys!

My tank have been up and running for a little over a year now.
I've had different kinds of problems in that year.
Startet up with some kind of weird algae - it took month to battle that, and it haven't been back since.
But the biggest and most annoying problem, is my corals don't grow.

I have tried everything. My KH, Alk and Mg have been stable. My Alk have been stable at around 12 (as recommended by Red Sea's program) and at around 8.
I have low nitrate and a little higher, to see if that makes a difference. No luck there. I have almost tried anything, without luck.
Also, my corals lose colors.

I'm sick and tired of this!

Would it be an idea to start over?

Empty the tank, complete cleaning. And then start again with new stone and sand, and see if it goes better this time?
I have used Marco stones, dead and no big cleaning, and I have some kind of feeling, those are the problems

 

[Sk8r]

More likely your problems are lighting and flow, at this point, which could require an equipment upgrade, an adjustment of where corals are sited, of what coral is next to or down-current of what other corals---it's not hard conceptually, but you do need to know your coral types. SUggest an inventory with assessment of water flow and lighting level, and looking to the specific coral forums.

 

[timger]

More likely your problems are lighting and flow, at this point, which could require an equipment upgrade, an adjustment of where corals are sited, of what coral is next to or down-current of what other corals---it's not hard conceptually, but you do need to know your coral types. SUggest an inventory with assessment of water flow and lighting level, and looking to the specific coral forums.

Thank you for your answer.

In the first year I've had 2 Kessils A360WE over the tank. The tank itself is 35" long, 24" wide and 18" high. I have had them at high intensity (peaking at 60%) and low intensity (peaking at 25%). I turned them down, because I've had these problems, to see if that's the reason.
1-2 month ago, I changed my lightning to a ATI Sunpower 8x39W T5 light instead.

I've started with the small Maxspect Gyre, but 3 month ago I changed that for a single Vortech MP40QD.

My LPS now is not very puffy, and the arms are not that long. I have 2 hammers and a torch.
I think they get the right amount of flow, and they are at the bottom, so they hopefully wont get to much lightning.

 

[billdogg]

Are the hammer and torch your only corals? How close together are they? They will both prefer moderate flow and medium intensity lighting. The torch will kill the hammer if it's within 6-8".

Your tank has been up for a year. You've changed the lighting and flow at least several times since the beginning. So the fact of the matter is that your tank is just now really starting to come into it's own. IMHO, the real problem is that you are not allowing the corals time to adjust to any given change. Any change you make should be just one thing at a time so that you can tell if that has, indeed, made a difference, and then give it time to actually show you that it is. Corals change and adapt over a period of months, so it can be a long time before you notice any difference.

Patience is a virtue that is so very important in this hobby. It is also one of the cornerstones to a successful system.

 

[heathlindner25]

Maybe I misunderstood you? Are you saying you're alk swings from 12 to 8?

 

[Shinte305]

I am no expert but i had a similar experience, the first year of my salt water tank i wanted my tank to look amazing and i wanted it fast..... i bought tons of corals and had zero growth through out the first year and couple months. i tried EVERYTHING nitrates up or down caclium mag alk trace elements feeding corals everything.

Then i went back to school, now working full time and part time school i have little time for the tank so all i did was constant bi weekly water changes and nothing else. i literally stopped paying attention to it....... BUT by doing constant water changes and always feeding the fish at the same time i created a stable environment. My corals exploded in growth about 6 months into this..... everything started spreading, zoas started coloring up and spreading my brain coral started to recover on its sides and got plumped... in other words i learned that stability is key. Stop changing things constantly just find a healthy routine and stick to it for a LONG time and watch it do its thing.

 

[timger]

Thank you for your answers so far.
First of all, I know it sounds like I have changed everything in the tank. Well, that's almost true, but the tank ran for a year before, and then I changed it all.

Could it be something with the rocks maybe? Could they leach phosphate?
I have a guy in a local Facebook group, guessing it could be phosphate there is my issue.
My stones are kind of green/black/dirty looking. He think it could be because of phosphate, but my phosphate levels are kind of stable, in the lower-ish range (max 0.008). Could that be the case?
Instead of starting all over, could I change out the rocks? I have always think, there is something about those rocks, and maybe they could course all my problems, although I have nothing specifically to back it up.

 

[hann1bal]

The readings from a leaching rock will throw off your tests so you could have leaching phosphate that is being absorbed by algae and therefore pulled out of the water. I had algae problem with almost 0 phosphate.

It "could" be phosphate but in my case the corals still grew great with a phosphate issue.

I would have to see your tank to tell for sure if you should start over but if it helps - I was forced to "start over" after my tank leaked. It was the best thing to happen as i could remove all rock not growing coraline and start fresh. I was able to do better cable management and I love my tank even more.

You may end up with the same problems though and the last year would be for nothing! Its a tough call - just keep in mind the hobby should be fun and at some point if its not you may need to adjust. Either spend $$, work harder, or start over!

P.S. I know my tank become great when i increased the water flow and got better lights (I have ATI T5 Blue+ and Coral+)

 

[Tisbe]

If it was phosphate we would be hearing that GHA is growing like crazy and killing your corals. I agree with pick a stable routine and stay with it. Things to establish are amount you feed, water change schedule, general equipment maintenance and lighting tank parameters (salinity, alk, etc..) you want and then wait 2-3 months to see if it works. Then if something is wrong make one change and wait 1-2 months before doing anything else. This will let you identify the problems and know if the change you made makes the problem better or worse. That being said, if what you change causes quick negative effects, say in the first 1 or 2 weeks, you may what to go back to where you were and then make another different small change. Rinse and repeat this process as necessary until the solutions are found.

The hard part of this hobby is getting a feeling of what truly the definition of "wait a long time" actually means in this hobby. For some things it is a week or two for others it is 4-6 months. Best of luck to you and your tank.

 

[timger]

I see what your saying, about stability. I just think I I've had stability for several month after changes, with nothing going better. Now I've had my new light and flow for a couple of month, and still no changes for the better.

Right from the start, I've had this issues. LPS, that's the only thing I have, had great PE when I put them in the new tank, and when I add new one now. But after 1-2 month, the PE is much worse, and they look boring.

I have only 2 small spots of coraline algae, other then that, the rocks are dirty, green and black-ish. There have been some weird kind of algaes too, but they don't show more. Because of this with the rocks, there have been there from the start, that's the main reason I suspect could course the problems.



As you can see, the rocks doesn't look good?

As said, I've had all kind of problems, with algae and no growth, so by starting over, I won't see it as I lost one year of progress, there haven't been any!
Everywhere I see people with 3-6 month old tanks, with very nice, color full corals, my one year old system can't do that.
By starting over I could build a better stand, get new rocks I've been dreaming about, and get rid of all the small snails I have, there is annoying as hell.

If I start over, I will use Aquaforest the start, have carbon and phosphate media in a tractor and just follow their program as recommended, and hopefully that allows me, to have LPS with good PE, and hopefully with time, SPS.

It's just whether to do it or not....

 

[timger]

I just found some examples, of the LPS and how they turn to the worse.



Look at the base, on the right picture. Nice and big, and long arms on the corals. The arms was double the size back then, compared to now.


This one, the arms touch each other, and was nice and puffy.
Right now, as you can see, they have almost no arms.

 

[billdogg]

They look bleached to me. Lighting? Normally they (Euphyllia sp.) prefer moderate flow and moderate lighting. I keep mine on the sand bed in the back corner of the tank (torch) and my frogspawn and hammers tucked up against the rocks to protect them from excessive flow.

 

[aquamann183]

I had a similar problem at one point. If you think you have a problem with your rocks, try using a turkey baster and blow off your rocks. If sand and debris are flying out, you probably need to have a power head that is directed more at your rocks.

Personally I would start running GFO in a reactor. I didn't see if you have a sump, but you can buy a "two little fishies phosban reactor" pretty cheap and it's well worth the money. My phosphate kit was reading pretty low at the time but i still had algae. In my few years of experience, algae means phosphate, period. Like someone said previously, a test kit may say you have .008 but you really still have more phosphate than that because the algae feeds off the phosphate and makes the number appear smaller than it actually is. Running GFO as mentioned will basically suffocate the algae and be pretty much gone in a month or two.

That was the first thing I did to my tank that greatly helped me..
The second thing was having coraline algae. Probably between a year and a half and 2 years I still had no coraline algae..I was running t5's at the time and eventually switched to leds.. around a month after the switch coraline algae was appearing everywhere in my tank. I'm not saying coraline algae is what makes the corals grow, just saying it seems like once it starts showing up, things in your tank are well established and corals also grow.

Around the same time I had a few bleaching corals as well, and ramped up my light intensity a little bit as well as move a few corals higher.

If I were you i wouldn't restart yet. Get the reactor and media..around 50 bucks, but there's always people selling them cheaper..
Blow your rocks off and make sure you have flow over the rocks..
And try turning your lights up a little.
Give it a month like that and see.

Good luck mate, hope it turns around for you!

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[timger]

They look bleached to me. Lighting? Normally they (Euphyllia sp.) prefer moderate flow and moderate lighting. I keep mine on the sand bed in the back corner of the tank (torch) and my frogspawn and hammers tucked up against the rocks to protect them from excessive flow.

Is it because of the pale colors? After the change to T5, the colors are getting better - but still kind of sucky PE.

I had a similar problem at one point. If you think you have a problem with your rocks, try using a turkey baster and blow off your rocks. If sand and debris are flying out, you probably need to have a power head that is directed more at your rocks.

Personally I would start running GFO in a reactor. I didn't see if you have a sump, but you can buy a "two little fishies phosban reactor" pretty cheap and it's well worth the money. My phosphate kit was reading pretty low at the time but i still had algae. In my few years of experience, algae means phosphate, period. Like someone said previously, a test kit may say you have .008 but you really still have more phosphate than that because the algae feeds off the phosphate and makes the number appear smaller than it actually is. Running GFO as mentioned will basically suffocate the algae and be pretty much gone in a month or two.

That was the first thing I did to my tank that greatly helped me..
The second thing was having coraline algae. Probably between a year and a half and 2 years I still had no coraline algae..I was running t5's at the time and eventually switched to leds.. around a month after the switch coraline algae was appearing everywhere in my tank. I'm not saying coraline algae is what makes the corals grow, just saying it seems like once it starts showing up, things in your tank are well established and corals also grow.

Around the same time I had a few bleaching corals as well, and ramped up my light intensity a little bit as well as move a few corals higher.

If I were you i wouldn't restart yet. Get the reactor and media..around 50 bucks, but there's always people selling them cheaper..
Blow your rocks off and make sure you have flow over the rocks..
And try turning your lights up a little.
Give it a month like that and see.

Good luck mate, hope it turns around for you!

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

I have no algae in my tank. Not now, and never had any - other then this weird brown snotty looking one.
What I have now, is green-ish, black-ish rocks - don't know if that's algae?

I will get a reactor, and try running GFO, to see if anything changes.
If not, I will get some new dead rocks, and start over. See if things go better second time around