No QT - how big a risk?

[JMorris271]

I would never even consider running a reef without quarantining everything. I always prophylactically treat new fish with tank transfer (TT) and PraziPro and then continuing observing for a total of 12 weeks. All corals, rock and inverts stay in a fishless QT for 12 weeks before going to the DT.

Always do your own quarantining regardless of where things come from.

Pay me now or pay me later...

I will be dead before I can get my tank out of QT. :hb2:

 

[Kyle918]

I would be concerned about the two chromis you introduced without QT. For the past 2-4 years or so, Chromis have been very prone to uronema marinum. It's a bacteria that infects the fish. I have a blue green chromis in QT that is showing signs after almost 5 weeks in QT. I'm glad he is in QT though.

I would do some research on that. Just use the search function, or google, for uronema marinum.

To answer the original question though, risk is only relevant to you and what you are willing to risk. IMO, you are risking your entire 75 gallon tank each time you add new livestock without QTing first. The farther you get into the hobby and the more your tank progresses and becomes stocked with expensive livestock, the greater the risk you take.

In my opinion and in my experience with my current chromis in QT, you are taking a huge, yet avoidable, risk by choosing not to QT all new livestock.

 

[Dr. Reef]

No QT. How big of a risk?
Playing Russian Roulette some play short some play longer. Same difference.

 

[Kyle918]

Thanks for te clarification guys .. I was worried there for a bit. I couldn't quarantine my fish because there's not much space in my apartment.. So my first precaution was to make sure the LFS had then for atleast one month. Figured this would be enough of a quarantine period.

I'll not add anything for the next 2 months. Get a QT (beg my wife lol). Cycle it and hope fish in my DT don't fall sick.

I live in a one bedroom apartment myself. I have my QT in my bedroom next to my dresser. I have and 10 gallon dual stand so I have two 10 gallon QT stacked. I am getting a third 10 gallon soon so I can do TT before QT and have one QT for corals.

I keep plenty of filter pads in my sump so they are seeded and ready to start a new QT at any time. So far I've had 4 fish in QT, with one, the chromis, breaking out with uronema marinum. QT has become a habit and habits are hard to break. :spin3:

Also, a LFS having a fish for a month doesn't mean anything. What if they added new fish arrivals in that last week and those new fish have ich or something similar? To me, the longer a fish is in the LFS, the higher the exposure to disease will be, not the opposite as you are assuming.

 

[Shan85]

Thanks guys .. I feel stupid now I will wait 2-3 months before adding. Will pray no fish gets ich or some other disease.

I've already decided to get the aqua one 340 tank as a quarantine tank.

Sk8r thanks for the acclimation tip.. Had no idea. Dkeller and Kyle thanks for feedback.

 

[zeebies]

I will be dead before I can get my tank out of QT. :hb2:

But your fish will be clean! :lol2:

 

[HumbleFish]

"Diver's Den® items are held, quarantined and shipped from our state-of-the-art Aquaculture Coral & Marine Life Facility in Rhinelander, Wisconsin."

Just to clarify for noobs...

I believe DD quarantine = a minimum of 2 weeks observation for obvious symptoms. Only if a fish exhibits symptoms, is it treated.

The fish has to be eating before it's sold as a DD specimen (this is a huge plus when dealing with finicky species). Prazi soaked foods are used to "deworm" every fish, but you still should dose your QT with Prazi twice (5-7 days apart) to knock out any surviving worms and the "next generation" from any eggs left behind.

 

[Kyle918]

Thanks guys .. I feel stupid now I will wait 2-3 months before adding. Will pray no fish gets ich or some other disease.

I've already decided to get the aqua one 340 tank as a quarantine tank.

Sk8r thanks for the acclimation tip.. Had no idea. Dkeller and Kyle thanks for feedback.

Don't feel stupid. We all learned the same way. :thumbsup: I use sk8r's tips for acclimation. 15 min float to temp match, then 15 min drip and in the tank they go! A great part of QT is that you can match the salinity to that of the LFS, usually 1.018-1.020. Then over the course do the QT process, you can gradually raise the salinity to match the DT.

 

[Dustyboots]

I wouldn't by a fish from Petco when they're are so many awesome independent aquarium shops. I went into our local one once for hamster food and all these poor new fish were still laying around in their plastic bags the almost hour I was there with my kids, not a soul in sight. Sad.

 

[Ryanrttu]

Is there no preventive chemical to give all new fish in a QT regardless of symptoms or not? Just curious if that's even a thing.

 

[EllisJuan]

Just to clarify DD's procedure....

Proper Acclimation:
The first step we take to ensure quality marine fish is our detailed acclimation process upon receipt of a new shipment. Proper acclimation is crucial during this difficult period directly after transport. As part of our stress-free acclimation protocol, acclimation of all new arrivals takes place in a separate room to control lighting and ambient temperature. We utilize a custom acclimation table featuring drip valves for new water and built-in drains to discard wastewater. The fish are released from the bags and placed in special acclimation units. Slide-in dividers allow us to separate fish during this time to further reduce potential fish stress. Water is dripped over the fish for an extended period to slowly adjust them to the water chemistry of our fish quarantine system.

Contrary to conventional practice, new arrivals at our facility are not kept in a hypo-salinity (low salinity) state. We maintain our salinity close to natural seawater, since overseas suppliers and export stations ship livestock in natural seawater (salinity of around 35 ppt depending on the locale). This practice reduces fish stress during initial acclimation and also allows us the flexibility to receive shipments from suppliers from around the world, on any day of the week. Most importantly, keeping our salinity close to natural seawater means minimum acclimation stress when you receive them for your home aquarium.

State-of-the-art Quarantine System:
Once properly acclimated, new fish are then housed and maintained in our special quarantine system. To provide superior filtration and water quality, our quarantine system employs an independent filtration system with biological filtration, UV sterilization, ozone, and a large foam fractionator (protein skimmer). Unlike conventional glass quarantine aquariums, our advanced system is made up of compartmentalized acrylic cubes and tanks so fish can be separated based on size and temperament to reduce aggression and stress.

Stress Reduction Period:
Directly after acclimation, the fish are kept in reduced- or no-light conditions for 12 to 24 hours. This is accomplished by placing blackout covers over the cubes and tanks. The specific species, origin, and transit time (overseas or a distributor in the U.S.) determines the duration of this stress-reduction period. Once the fish exhibit normal breathing and behavior (i.e. swimming properly), the tanks and cubes are uncovered and each fish is given a thorough inspection.

Disease Prevention:
Fish, such as clownfish, prone to common parasitic ailments like Brooklynella hostilis, are given repeated freshwater baths that contain anti-parasite medication. Clownfish are quarantined for a minimum of four weeks at our facility before we offer them for sale. Other fish such as Angelfish, tangs, certain genus of wrasse, and several other specific species are given therapeutic saltwater baths. These baths contain praziquantel or other medications that eliminate flukes, protozoan, and parasites commonly found on wild fish.

To combat common bacterial infections such as Vibrio, therapeutic baths containing antibiotics such as kanamycin, nitrofurazone, Neomycin and other commercial antibiotics are given. Open wounds on fish are treated and healed with a special topical treatment. In addition to the baths, all quarantined fish are treated with copper sulfate and a 37% formaldehyde solution to combat Amyloodinium ocellatum and Cryptocaryon irritans.

Once they start feeding, all new fish that enter our facility, and can be successfully weaned onto prepared foods, are de-wormed, via frozen food soaked in praziquantel, metronidazole, and piperazine. After the de-worming process, we offer a variety of vitamin-enriched foods to all of the fish. These foods include frozen mysis shrimp, frozen brine shrimp, live ghost shrimp, frozen krill, silversides, roe, dried seaweed, cockle, and even pellet foods. Some species of Anglerfish, Frogfish, Leaffish, Scoprion Fish, and certain species of wild harvested seahorses that require live foods, such as Ghost Shrimp, will be listed with this information in their description when they are posted on the site.

Quarantine and Observation Period:
The quarantine period for each fish ranges from a minimum of two weeks to several months for more delicate species. Throughout the quarantine period, all of the fish are monitored closely, with particular attention to breathing rate, swimming behavior, and overall appearance and demeanor. Once the fish have passed a thorough inspection, they are ready to be acclimated and moved into our main fish system.

Final Acclimation to Captive Conditions:
Our main fish system is over 3,000 gallons and utilizes a giant fluidized sand bed filter, a 12 ft tall by 24" diameter foam fractionator (protein skimmer), 1000 mg ozone generator, 960 watt UV sterilizer, and three dedicated pumps to facilitate the operation of the system. With additional individual fish boxes, divided cubicle sections, 24" and 48" acrylic aquariums, and 48" x 48" holding vats to supplement our main fish system, we are able to comfortably house a variety of fish - from the smallest gobies to gorgeous show-size specimens.

The fish are then acclimated from our quarantine system to our main fish system. Employing the drip acclimation method further reduces any potential fish stress. Only when the fish have settled into their new environment in the main fish system are they photographed. By the time the images are loaded onto the Diver's Den® section of LiveAquaria.com and offered for sale, these marine fish have passed a strict quarantine, treatment, and acclimation procedure. When you select these exquisite specimens from Diver's Den®, you are simply receiving the healthiest marine fish available anywhere.

If I am ordering a fish online, this is where I choose to get them from. They are by far the best large operation out there in my opinion. All that being said, I would still QT fish I get from DD. However, I do not treat them for anything unless I see symptoms. I do not believe in blindly treating a disease that may not be present

 

[ahmed_iAM]

If you're buying the fish from another reefer or a store that has already quarantined it, it's not a risk. Other wise it could be deadly. Ich isn't the only thing it could have. My blue throat had a worm in its stomach that I didn't know of until dissecting it after it died. Was hard to tell anyways even after two weeks of quarantine.

 

[sponger0]

If you're buying the fish from another reefer or a store that has already quarantined it, it's not a risk.

I HIGHLY disagree with this. Just cause some says they do, doesnt mean they have done it right. Trust no one. And Ive met some pretty shady reefer in my area honestly. I wouldnt trust a thing they say

 

[sponger0]

Ich isn't a concern for a mature tank imo (I don't qt and have 20+ fish and ich has been in the tank. There's even a powder blue in there who's fine now that my tank has matured)

Velvet is another story though....

Maturity has nothing to do with how the parasite is going to affect a fish. Its easier to live without then to live with.

 

[DavidinGA]

Maturity has nothing to do with how the parasite is going to affect a fish. Its easier to live without then to live with.

If tank maturity has nothing to do with ich's killing capacity why are 90% of the threads about someone dealing with ich on tanks less than 1 year old....

Some of the guys on here with tanks 5 years old could drop all kinds of ich infested fish in there tanks and the fish would survive. Drop the same sick fish in a 3 month old tank and odds are they'll all die.

 

[sponger0]

If tank maturity has nothing to do with ich's killing capacity why are 90% of the threads about someone dealing with ich on tanks less than 1 year old....

Some of the guys on here with tanks 5 years old could drop all kinds of ich infested fish in there tanks and the fish would survive. Drop the same sick fish in a 3 month old tank and odds are they'll all die.

Cause most of those people are new with the less than 1 year old tank.

And most seasoned reefers arent going to openly confess their errors. Its going to affect the fish the same. The parasite is going to grow at the same rate if not faster.

 

[DavidinGA]

Cause most of those people are new with the less than 1 year old tank.

And most seasoned reefers arent going to openly confess their errors. Its going to affect the fish the same. The parasite is going to grow at the same rate if not faster.

That's too convenient to be true I think....

 

[sponger0]

That's too convenient to be true I think....

So does one person stating that a mature tank helps when its the only person Ive EVER heard say that. Id just say your one of the "lucky" ones

 

[ca1ore]

If you're buying the fish from another reefer or a store that has already quarantined it, it's not a risk.

Simply not true! I might, MIGHT, accept that buying a long established fish from a reefer you know well and trust might represent less of a risk, even then it is not zero. No LFS I have ever dealt with was able to QT a fish properly - and I have dealt with a lot over the years. As noted earlier in this thread, I'd judge the risk to be elevated the longer a fish languishes at retail.

FWIW, I was not a QT advocate for many years in my early time in this hobby. Lost a lot of fish trying to setup a QT, so didn't bother. Consequently I was always battling some kind of problem in my tank and was never able to get a established population of fish to survive longer term. A more experienced buddy of mine then showed me how to setup a QT properly and I've never looked back. Not a guarantee against disease, but not quite the same kind of Russian Rouletts without. No brainier IMO.

 

[sandwi54]

If tank maturity has nothing to do with ich's killing capacity why are 90% of the threads about someone dealing with ich on tanks less than 1 year old....

Some of the guys on here with tanks 5 years old could drop all kinds of ich infested fish in there tanks and the fish would survive. Drop the same sick fish in a 3 month old tank and odds are they'll all die.

This is because the average life time of our hobby nowadays is a year or so. Most people get into the hobby because they see their friends or someone else having a beautiful marine tank. They don't learn or do things the right way, either out of ignorance or due to misleading anecdotes. When something happens, they come to Reef Central for advice and many subsequently leave the hobby when they can't figure things out.

That being said, I agree that a mature tank that provides minimum stress level helps with ich management. However, the keyword is "minimum stress." Can you guarantee that all your equipment (heater, return pump, etc.) will work forever without any chance of failure? As soon as something fails and causes the system to be out of balance, the stress level increases and fish can get stressed enough to succumb to the parasite. This has happened to many people (including my friend) in the past - they successfully manage ich in their nice, mature reef tanks for months or years, and go on vacation and something happens (heater breaks, apex loses communication, etc.), and return from vacations seeing all their fish heavily infected. This is called "Murphy's law."

That's the reason why we on Reef Central, will never tell any new hobbyist to "manage ich," because that is not the correct way of running a successful tank with healthy fish.