No Sick Fish, No QT, No water change

This is offered as constructive criticism, not an attack. NSF wants to be treated as a reputable dealer. IMO you first need to act as one. I am not going to speak about your product at all, but if you want to run a business you need to address the concerns of your potential customers, even if they are a bit "enthusiastic" at times.

I completely understand your desire to keep your product ingredients proprietary, that is your choice. Those of us who don't wish to add unknown things to our tanks don't have to. Those that don't mind can. There will always be some griping about the ingredients in any product, even if 1000 people come on board and say it works great. As a business owner you must understand that your business practices will antagonize someone sometime, but they are your practices and your choices.

Now, what can you do? Well, first off, fix the testimonials. You claimed they were mistakes by the webmaster, fine, fix them. Sure they might just be typos, but understand that your failure to address this item simply added fuel to the fire. As the original posts were found in a couple of cases, it should be very easy to rectify.

Next, think before you post defensively. You comment that you wish you could tell us some users of your products. You say you have some "Big Boys" Here again, the Internet is a great resource, but as we all know from getting email, there are alot of scams too. Consider us skeptical of unspecific claims. Instead, if you truly have these "Big Boys" and they are happy, then make a deal with them to give a public testimonial, and put the biggest and best at the top of your list. If they refuse to give, then best not to allude to them at all. Again, adding fuel to the fire. If they won't give a testimonial then we are left to assume (rightly or wrongly, some companies simply don't want to get caught up in it) they don't like your product.

If you react to customers questions in a timely and courteous manner (btw everyone has mentioned you are very plesant to deal with) that will go a long way towards establishing a reputation as reputable. It's funny, but in this respect, in some ways, your reaction to peoples questions or comments, deserved or not, can actually be more important at this time than if your product actually works or not. There are enough people in the hobby that that question will be answered eventually.

We all want to believe in you. You offer something that is undeniably awesome, but you need to do a little more than you are to help us. In the abscence of an ingredient list, you need to have something more than suspect testimonials. Test results performed by an independent party would be best, but whatever tests were done during development would be something. Be prepared for questions from some very smart people though. Not to imply you would post false data, but to warn you that if you do post some test reults, before you do something so simple as to fix the typos in the testimonials(which are all suspiciously misleading in your favor) then your posted results will be looked on with increased skepticism.

I love the idea of a non disclosure agreement with someone on this board, though I am unsure as to whether or not anyone would be available to do it, but it could go a long way towards future sales if you could get a Randy Holmes Farley or someone similar in your corner.

I wish you well and hope that your product is proven to work.
 
Drewcipher, that was the most eloquent written, unflaming, and to the point post in this entire thread. Thank you.
 
I just finished reading this thread.

The first thing I did was call Billy Brock to see if aaron23 was a liar. He is!!! He said that he had no recollection and asked that I forward him the link so that he could read it. He said that he would post! I am going to include his email with this post in the form of a picture. You can see the email directly in my inbox. No alterations. Except phone numbers removed.

http://www.nosickfish.com/advertising/billybrockweb.jpg

Mmoore0803: It didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t work for you. I am sorry. There is nothing that I can do about it. We have been direct from the very beginning about our medicine. It is not perfect, and we publicly state that it doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t work all of the time. It does however work a high percentage of the time. Were you running a phosband reactor, or any other phosphate reducing media? They need to be removed!

Bob F/ W.W.M./ Atomikk: Clearly some errors were made by our web technician. There was no intention to mislead anyone, and things will be corrected. A couple web site related issues is completely separate from our company and what we do. I think it is clear that a mistake was made, and that alone. He mis-spelled a name, he used the wrong name/word. The very last written word on the post is Bob Fenner. I can clearly understand why he would mistakenly use the wrong name. Some asked why F. was used in place of Fenner. Look at every single testimonial. None of them use a full last name. The user marshal on wet web media. I hope he can be contacted, and tell us his story. I bet he will use the word ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œsuccessfulââ"šÂ¬Ã‚

I find very interesting that every time that we have users post in a positive manner they are instantly attacked! I understand the credibility of posts if they have a week record. What about the posts with a deep history. Regardless, Why attack them?

A re-occurring comment that I have read on this forum. ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œ I wont put anything in my tank unless I know the contents in itââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ We have thousands of customers who use it in reef tanks with out problems. If you donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t want to use it, thatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s fine. We have some of the Big Boys using our medicine. There is a really good chance that your fish/corals/inverts have already been subjected to our medicine before you ever bought it. They donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t know what is in it, but they donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t care. They can see what it is doing for there fish, and business!

I have $63,000 dollars in-vested in the formula. I could have spent money on patents, but I choose to spend money on masking agents, and a better formula. It will take a lot more than $12,000 to figure out how the medicine works. There are 11 ingredients in it, and my chemistââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s ensured me that it would take $40,000-$60,000 to find out what is in it, and how they all work.

For the people that cry, moan, and complain about a product they have never used. I hope you never get the opportunity to own an aquarium where you donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t have spend each night looking at your quarantine tank taking care of sick fish, while your neighbor is looking at his Show Tank!

** post edited to remove advertising and profanity. A.C. **

Hundreds of happy customers each month and few complainers who have never used the product.

No Sick Fish




wow.... dude i just spoke to billy you are seriously just wow QUIT LYING HOW DOES THAT SOUND?????

.......


NO COMMENT ...

DONT EVER SAY THAT I AM LYING.


giving out false feed back.

DO NOT MANIPULATE WHAT PEOPLE SAY.

end of story.


THANKS.
 
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how would it sound if i had billy himself post on reef central to say YOU ARE FURTHER LYING .... wow WHAT LENGTHS MUST YOU GO THROUGH TO LIE AND LIE AND LIE???? no comment.
totally pathetic. seriously stop trying to sell your product and call me a liar. you are seriously running some thing here.


YOU CAN READ HIS FEED BACK. FIRST IT SAYS HOW HE DIDNT USE THE PRODUCT ICH FREE or whatever the crap its called. AND THEN IT SAYS HE USED IT ON A WHIP FIN WRASSE WAT THE FREAK? GET SOME COMMON SENSE BEFORE YOU POST SOME THING THAT JUST TOTALLY MAKES YOU LOOK FAKE???? your story just shoots itself down. sorry but you have failed.

Billy's feed back. -
http://www.nosickfish.com/advertising/billybrockweb.jpg

ON THE 6'th - 7th SENTENCE OF THIS FEEDBACK JUST TOTALLY NEGATES WHAT HE SAID MEANING YOU MANIPULATED HIS EMAIL.

caught red handed.

take a look for yourself.


no comment ... further posting to this thread NSF will make you further look ridiculously dumb. sorry.

dont play around w/ me and try to lie and cover it up.

NOW: riptides reef's email in its entirety.

"Honestly, I cannot remember it has been so long ago. We dont focus much on fish and the ones we do are normally farm raised so we rarely have a problem with ich. I do remember being referred to this person selling the "transit" shipping treatment. I ordered a bottle as a test and he included a bottle of
the ich treatment for free. All he asked me was that if it worked well to let people know. He was a very pleasant individual and they did expedite shipping without my request. I know that we had a pair of whipfin wrasses that we bought from an outside wholesaler and they didnt look so hot. We used the ich treatment. One died and one lived. It has been months since then and I still have the one whipfin. At that time, that particular fish system was connected to a sump that shared with a coral system and no corals suffered. I cannot be certain if the ich treatment worked or if the whipfin that survived just fought it off. Likewise, I use the "transit" on every fish I ship and have not lost any fish that were delivered on time. Is that
because I'm using the transit or because I use plenty of water and oxygen in every bag and only ship hardy, farm raised fish? I dont know but it hasnt hurt them."

Though this may seem like i'm trying to attack your business obviously there is going to be some what of an impact but you to post that feed back and manipulate what he says is apauling. I am not saying whether or not your product works or doesnt. Its up to the customers to decide. But what i am saying is that you manipulated his email and you know it. bottom line done deal.
 
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I'm out for the weekend... will be asking fellow mods to moniter this thread. I have strategically selected mods with a hair trigger on their whips ;)

I frankly feel this thread has run its course on the present information or lack thereof. Without any new developments, it really stands to turn into a dreadful flame and would be at risk of closing. But I'm leaving it open and asking everyone to think mindfully before they post.

This is not the place to vent.

I may still be licking my wounds next weak and in no mood to babysit boorish posting. I just had my home broken into while I was away travelling (to a hobby club, as always) and it was badly vandalized... so when I get back, I'm really hoping nobody has volunteered to be the first person I've ever banned or made this the first post I've ever closed ;) I'm quite proud (on the reason why, not just the stat) that neither has happend yet and would very much like to keep it that way.

Thanks in advance if you can help make this so.

Anth- :)
 
Anthony,

That is unbelievably tragic, I am so sorry to hear that. I hope the police have some leads.

That said, I'm pretty hopped up on coffee today so my hair trigger is ready, waiting and twitching :)

Take care of yourself.
 
wow that is bad sir calfo .... did thye do anything drastic? what did they do ?!?!!? and how are your reef / marine stuff doing? did they harm anything?
 
Thanks Bill for the info on the MSDS.

As a business owner I am bound with the outraqeous demands of OSHA and the dreaded book. Not to mention having to "assign" an staffer as "OSHA Compliance officer"

The problem would fall however on the commercial entity using the formula in the business without the MSDS. I would question the wisdom of any shop owner using the product without this MSDS on file. Although prosecutions are very rare, they are very expensive and virtually impossible to win.

I doubt as a commercial entity, using NSF products that I would be very eager to post such information in the wild. Any employee that fell ill, could point to this product and I am afraid the employer would have a big problem on his hands regardless of who or what made this person ill.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6288478#post6288478 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anthony Calfo
I may still be licking my wounds next weak and in no mood to babysit boorish posting. I just had my home broken into while I was away travelling (to a hobby club, as always) and it was badly vandalized... so when I get back, I'm really hoping nobody has volunteered to be the first person I've ever banned or made this the first post I've ever closed ;) I'm quite proud (on the reason why, not just the stat) that neither has happend yet and would very much like to keep it that way.

Anthony.... Deeply sorry to hear this, man. I do hope all will be well with time.

Best of life to you.

-Sabrina
 
Anthony, I too have been a victim of vandalism within the past couple of months in a supposedlly gated, safe community. I am sorry for you and I feel your pain my friend.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6291848#post6291848 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randall_James
I would question the wisdom of any shop owner using the product without this MSDS on file.

Your quite right. Which raises the next question.

Tyler, do you have MSDS sheets for your products?
 
I very much appreciate the kind words, my friends.

But no worries, now.

It's really all water under the bridge already. I was indeed angry/violated/hurt on day one... but am thankful for many things. No one was hurt above all. Just another stat at that point. I do have insurance... and my two most fav antiques were untouched. Actually... most all the larger furniture were untouched. Its rather silly the damage they did and things they chose to steal.

OK... OT diversion over :p
'
Much thanks for caring :D That's the sort of kindness that is so inspiring :)
 
C'mon Tyler 157 posts and 3690 views alot of which are undoubtably following this thread. Thats alot of sales if you can answer some of the most basic questions posted here.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6295650#post6295650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Your quite right. Which raises the next question.

Tyler, do you have MSDS sheets for your products?

Just like everyone else here I have no idea what's in this stuff. But just because it's in a bottle that's being used by an employee does not mean it must have a MSDS supplied. That is only required for products that fall into the catagory of being hazardous.

(d) "Hazard Determination."

(d)(1)

Chemical manufacturers and importers shall evaluate chemicals produced in their workplaces or imported by them to determine if they are hazardous. Employers are not required to evaluate chemicals unless they choose not to rely on the evaluation performed by the chemical manufacturer or importer for the chemical to satisfy this requirement.

(d)(2)

Chemical manufacturers, importers or employers evaluating chemicals shall identify and consider the available scientific evidence concerning such hazards. For health hazards, evidence which is statistically significant and which is based on at least one positive study conducted in accordance with established scientific principles is considered to be sufficient to establish a hazardous effect if the results of the study meet the definitions of health hazards in this section. Appendix A shall be consulted for the scope of health hazards covered, and Appendix B shall be consulted for the criteria to be followed with respect to the completeness of the evaluation, and the data to be reported.

Trade Secrets

(i) "Trade secrets."

(i)(1)

The chemical manufacturer, importer, or employer may withhold the specific chemical identity, including the chemical name and other specific identification of a hazardous chemical, from the material safety data sheet, provided that:

(i)(1)(i)

The claim that the information withheld is a trade secret can be supported;

(i)(1)(ii)

Information contained in the material safety data sheet concerning the properties and effects of the hazardous chemical is disclosed

I'll spare you and not insert the remainder of this here but it can be found at....
http://www.ilpi.com/msds/osha/1910_1200.html#1910.1200(i)


Getting an attorney involved in detirming what the regulations require should help support our economy and add a substaintial amount to the retail price of the product. :lol:

SteveU
 
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