No Sick Fish, No QT, No water change
- Thread starter Hobster
- Start date
Randall_James
Premium Member
The Bob F. post is still on the mfr site.
Also there are claims made by a couple RC members
Attomikk and Ryan... interestingly neither show up in member searchs... Wonder what that is about?
Also there are claims made by a couple RC members
Attomikk and Ryan... interestingly neither show up in member searchs... Wonder what that is about?
GTR
Active member
Maybe he made a mistake (or two) and mispelled the user name.
Atomikk
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5994299&highlight=miracle#post5994299
Further search returned the first link in question.
SteveU
Atomikk
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5994299&highlight=miracle#post5994299
Further search returned the first link in question.
SteveU
GTR
Active member
The second one comes from a one-post wonder but it is here none the less.
Ryan Utterback
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6006107&highlight=ich+free#post6006107
It's obvious the quotes were actual quotes from RC regardless of the factual content.
SteveU
Ryan Utterback
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6006107&highlight=ich+free#post6006107
It's obvious the quotes were actual quotes from RC regardless of the factual content.
SteveU
Steven Pro
New member
The BobF comments are simply scummy.
And by the way, just because a manufacturer makes claims of being safe does not mean they actually are.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/sp/index.php
I have not tested any of the No Sick Fish products yet, but they sound like very good candidates for further review.
And by the way, just because a manufacturer makes claims of being safe does not mean they actually are.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/sp/index.php
I have not tested any of the No Sick Fish products yet, but they sound like very good candidates for further review.
Anthony Calfo
New member
there is always concern about the intent of low post history members whose first/early post(s) are testimonials.
Anthony Calfo
New member
17 minutes is terrible actually... I have to get much faster/better at sleuthing to make the master proud...
Nothing escapes Habib
Nothing escapes Habib
I can't believe that some of these comments are allowed here. Isn't NSF a sponsor here? Isn't it their sponsorship and the sponsorship of many others that funds this great site, pays salaries to the "experts" on this site.
I have no idea if it works or not, if it doesn't, it will be exposed. If it does work, then great, there is another option for all of us.
I have no idea if it works or not, if it doesn't, it will be exposed. If it does work, then great, there is another option for all of us.
Anthony Calfo
New member
Parshmar - are you saying that a free content website promoting success in the hobby at all levels should be censored to protect advertising dollars? If so, you may want to reconsider what it is that makes this site great.
The advertiser has made public claims and in doing so invites consumers to ponder them.
Moreover... everyone/thing needs to stand on its own merit alone.
For better or for worse.
If there is any concern about truthful statements, I have saved a copy of the mfg site and wwm site that they have quoted. I would be very willing to help clarify this issue for the manufacturer or anyone else, if I can.
Perhaps the mfg could advise us when they got permission to use wet web media's copywritten name in a for-profit advertisement of testimonials?
How did they come to use Bob F's name when the post was really made my a chap named Marshall?
How exactly did the word "successfully" appear in the mfg advertisement for an endorsement that does not appear to be an actual endorsement and had it been cut and pasted excatly would not have included the word "successfully?"
Shall I go on?
Moreover... parshmar, can you (seriously) advise me on where it is you think any of us have gone wrong specifically here in sharing information on a reef "discussion" message board discussing a reef product?
Please.
The advertiser has made public claims and in doing so invites consumers to ponder them.
Moreover... everyone/thing needs to stand on its own merit alone.
For better or for worse.
If there is any concern about truthful statements, I have saved a copy of the mfg site and wwm site that they have quoted. I would be very willing to help clarify this issue for the manufacturer or anyone else, if I can.
Perhaps the mfg could advise us when they got permission to use wet web media's copywritten name in a for-profit advertisement of testimonials?
How did they come to use Bob F's name when the post was really made my a chap named Marshall?
How exactly did the word "successfully" appear in the mfg advertisement for an endorsement that does not appear to be an actual endorsement and had it been cut and pasted excatly would not have included the word "successfully?"
Shall I go on?
Moreover... parshmar, can you (seriously) advise me on where it is you think any of us have gone wrong specifically here in sharing information on a reef "discussion" message board discussing a reef product?
Please.
Randall_James
Premium Member
I would be willing to bet that the little icon below my Avatar "I support RC" and those like me provide at least as much if not more of the operating funds for this site than any 10 of the "Business" sponsors.
I would just LOVE to see the pay checks the "Pros" get here while I laugh all the way to the bank......
I am really greatful that the "Experts" are skeptical of claims made by "paying" sponsors.
Otherwise I would find it of extreme finacial benefit to create my own "Voodoo" magic in a bottle and sell it as a reef safe (easy enough to do) Ich curing (harder to prove me wrong) compound with dozens of "Glowing" testimonials (one time poster? Hey I can do that myself).. Hmmm gives me a great idea for a new product... (had no idea this was going to be so easy)
Stay tuned for further announcements on this late breaking story on a cure for Fish Herpes!!...............(ich was taken)
Incidentally, if you can not spell the names of your testimonial givers correctly, you expect me to trust your ability to make drugs for my reef tank??
NicoleC
New member
I have seen no flames on this thread, or any kind of abuse toward the manufacturer. Certainly there is a lot of healthy skepticism, and the recent comments are very unflattering -- but they are also entirely factual and documented.
It is entirely within the scope of this site to discuss and critique aquarium products, even those of the sponsors -- many of whom have their own forums for feedback and discussion.
You are quite right -- if it doesn't work they will be exposed. This forum is exactly the kind of place the exposure happens!
I think the preponderance of evidence leans toward this sponsor being untruthful -- if only for the fact that they will not even respond to requests for evidence or the source of their claims. It would be great if the products DO work as claimed -- but the burden of evidence is on the manufacturer, not the other way around.
GTR
Active member
Yet if a user finds the product to work as claimed it's called shilling. And when a member makes accusations that a testimonial which in fact is from RC is not it's twisted into another what's in it", "I don't trust them" comment and not Oh, I made a mistake. Ryan was easy to find as was the other. Simple search procedure for any I Support RC logo holder.
I don't think this public display of distrust for the product will accomplish anything more than having the sponsor leave the site. It might surprise some that a hobby business can in fact survive without an RC sponsorship agreement in place.
IMO even well respected vendor's have nothing to gain by participating in these discussions. How many of these "outed" products are still in business, my guess is most, just not in "our" house.
SteveU
I don't think this public display of distrust for the product will accomplish anything more than having the sponsor leave the site. It might surprise some that a hobby business can in fact survive without an RC sponsorship agreement in place.
IMO even well respected vendor's have nothing to gain by participating in these discussions. How many of these "outed" products are still in business, my guess is most, just not in "our" house.
SteveU
puter
Active member
Steve, I think it is entirely appropriate to question the veracity of a manufacturer's product claims. Particularly so when the only "evidence" offered as to the efficacy of the product is testimonials, including ones that were manipulated in a misleading or downright disingenous way to appear favorable.
Randall_James
Premium Member
gtrestoration
Paying for a spot on a sponsor list does not buy one a free pass on a product or claims that a product may or may not work.
Misspelling the names of people that have made claims for or against your product shows a certain lack of thoroughness.
The careful omission of a number of lines preceding a persons name (albeit in the same post) in such a manner as to indicate an endorsement is at the very least questionable, and at the worst fraudulent. It is also an invite to open criticism as to any and or all claims made. (Would be up to Bob F. to determine if the use of his name was in any way appropriate I suppose). But frankly I think it casts a heavy cloak of doubt on the entire rest of the site IMO.
But thank you for the healthy defense in the free enterprise system all the same
Paying for a spot on a sponsor list does not buy one a free pass on a product or claims that a product may or may not work.
Misspelling the names of people that have made claims for or against your product shows a certain lack of thoroughness.
The careful omission of a number of lines preceding a persons name (albeit in the same post) in such a manner as to indicate an endorsement is at the very least questionable, and at the worst fraudulent. It is also an invite to open criticism as to any and or all claims made. (Would be up to Bob F. to determine if the use of his name was in any way appropriate I suppose). But frankly I think it casts a heavy cloak of doubt on the entire rest of the site IMO.
I hope you understand the point being made. Sure I had seen the name Atomic on this board at one time or another, not that I lend his name any sort of credence but it should be posted correctly if used as a quote.
But thank you for the healthy defense in the free enterprise system all the same
Anthony Calfo
New member
SteveU... shilling is only when the post-maker has a vested interest. Usually by an agent of the company, employee, distributor, mfg themselves, etc. Thats a UA violation.
But RC members that otherwise compliment or criticize a product are merely doing that. It is wholly part of reef hobby discussion... and appropriate on a reef hobby discussion message board.
But common sense makes one wonder why a new(er) member that is seemingly unaffliliated chooses to make the first three out of their first four posts glowing testimonials strategically placed in seperate forums for a given product (just an example). Is that the gray area you are referring to as shilling?
As for the testimonial in question here... I'm sorry, I'm having trouble fnding any other explanation for why the word "successful" was added conveniently before "treated" and how the original posters name got deleted with everything up to "Bob_F" and then "enner" got deleted afterwards. Please. That's insulting.
But RC members that otherwise compliment or criticize a product are merely doing that. It is wholly part of reef hobby discussion... and appropriate on a reef hobby discussion message board.
But common sense makes one wonder why a new(er) member that is seemingly unaffliliated chooses to make the first three out of their first four posts glowing testimonials strategically placed in seperate forums for a given product (just an example). Is that the gray area you are referring to as shilling?
As for the testimonial in question here... I'm sorry, I'm having trouble fnding any other explanation for why the word "successful" was added conveniently before "treated" and how the original posters name got deleted with everything up to "Bob_F" and then "enner" got deleted afterwards. Please. That's insulting.
I'm not saying anyone deserves a free pass, quite the contrary. There are a few posts on the first page that seemed to compare or lump it into a category of "snake oil".
Scrutinize all you want but how many of you have actually tried this product? Seems to me if you haven't tried it, then there isn't a whole lot of room to talk.
If it is a sham, I hope it's brought out/proven so people don't waste their money. Since i have never tried the product, i'm not going to defend or debate it's merits.
Scrutinize all you want but how many of you have actually tried this product? Seems to me if you haven't tried it, then there isn't a whole lot of room to talk.
If it is a sham, I hope it's brought out/proven so people don't waste their money. Since i have never tried the product, i'm not going to defend or debate it's merits.
Anthony Calfo
New member
parshmar... do you actually own an aquarium that has live animals in it whose very lives depend on you?
I cannot fathom otherwise why you would suggest we just "try" a product on live animals (in systems worth many thousands of dollars, no less) otherwise we "[haven't got room to talk.]"
That's just ludicrous and gives me cause for concern about the kind of aquarist you are and how you regard the value of life beyond our present discussion of consumer advocacy here.
No... we will not just try it or shut up! Please.
It is sensible if not necessary(!) to ask what the ingredients are if not listed, or have the manufacturer provide trials from reliable sources that can verify (without giving up proprietary ingredients) the claims that is is safe, if not effective as claimed.
That is not unreasonable. Can you understand that much?
I cannot fathom otherwise why you would suggest we just "try" a product on live animals (in systems worth many thousands of dollars, no less) otherwise we "[haven't got room to talk.]"
That's just ludicrous and gives me cause for concern about the kind of aquarist you are and how you regard the value of life beyond our present discussion of consumer advocacy here.
No... we will not just try it or shut up! Please.
It is sensible if not necessary(!) to ask what the ingredients are if not listed, or have the manufacturer provide trials from reliable sources that can verify (without giving up proprietary ingredients) the claims that is is safe, if not effective as claimed.
That is not unreasonable. Can you understand that much?
I SMELL MUCHO BEEF ~~~ GOOD GAME. ANTHONY OWNS....
NSF = BAD ....+... SAD ......
I checked out that site a couple months ago thought that was MIRACLE MEDICINE that was WAY OVERPRICED and i had known it was a load of crap. HEY BOB FENNER / MARSHALL HOW BOUT YOU POST AND DEFEND YOURSELF .. . . . NSF - FAILURE!@~!~ hehe j/p no hating.
Lets get some updates on anybody who's actually used their products. I dont believe Billy from riptidesreef had said taht i'm going to go ask him i know him very well....
Aaron.
NSF = BAD ....+... SAD ......
I checked out that site a couple months ago thought that was MIRACLE MEDICINE that was WAY OVERPRICED and i had known it was a load of crap. HEY BOB FENNER / MARSHALL HOW BOUT YOU POST AND DEFEND YOURSELF .. . . . NSF - FAILURE!@~!~ hehe j/p no hating.
Lets get some updates on anybody who's actually used their products. I dont believe Billy from riptidesreef had said taht i'm going to go ask him i know him very well....
Aaron.
