No Water Changes!

[Bluemorningwind]

The old saying that you can lead a horse to water... seems so true here.

There seems to be some misunderstanding about why partials are done.

The main function of partials is nutrient export.

Calcium has nothing to do with coral bleaching. Bleaching is the result of zooxanthellae dieing. Zooxanthellae rely on photosyntheses and not nutrients as suggested. 90% of most corals' nutritional needs come from this zooxanthellae.

Keeping nutrients low is the key to successful aquarium keeping. Elements and such are, to the greater degree, nonsense.

Bogart80's tank is successful despite the common join-the-dots approach heavily guarded by some. Although, it does make people nervous, but probably due to their own (mis)conceptions rather than anything real.

 

[Jimbo327]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12437904#post12437904 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bluemorningwind
The old saying that you can lead a horse to water... seems so true here.

There seems to be some misunderstanding about why partials are done.

The main function of partials is nutrient export.

Calcium has nothing to do with coral bleaching. Bleaching is the result of zooxanthellae dieing. Zooxanthellae rely on photosyntheses and not nutrients as suggested. 90% of most corals' nutritional needs come from this zooxanthellae.

Keeping nutrients low is the key to successful aquarium keeping. Elements and such are, to the greater degree, nonsense.

Bogart80's tank is successful despite the common join-the-dots approach heavily guarded by some. Although, it does make people nervous, but probably due to their own (mis)conceptions rather than anything real.

Looks like you were just baiting. Geez, how classy.

Once again, calcium/magnesium/alkalinity are dependent on each other. And if they are unbalanced, which they are if one doesn't do water changes or add supplements, then swings can happen easier and thus cause zooxanthellae to die which causes bleaching based on certain sensitive coral needs. You also fail to discuss buffering. Zooxanthellae converts light to energy, but still needs calcium to deposit to grow.

Keeping nutrients low is obviously good. But we are not talking about nutrients. Elements and nutrients are 2 totally different things. Nutrients is more like nitrogen based. So without calcium, how does the stony corals grow?

Partials are not only done for nutrients. Most people have skimmers and macro to absorb most of the nutrient. Also, live rock and sand converts a lot of the nutrients in a mature reef. Partials are done to replace calcium/magnesium/alkalinity and to keep the elements in check. The truth is no one knows how the elements affect corals just yet. A lot of research is being done right now by biologist. So for you to dismiss it without any proof is actually the true misconception. Since we don't know, our best bet is to keep it as close to NSW as possible. That is why water change is being done by reefers with mature tanks. It's much cheaper alternative to adding seperate elements because you would have to test for them.

 

[Lance M.]

I'm surprised no one has said anything about the anemone.

 

[jmp21677]

First I do water changes regularly!!!

However I have a friend who has a 150 sps tank that has been up for over a year and he has yet to do a water change. Top off water comes through a kalk reactor and thats it. His colors are amazing and his growth is unreal! Reefing is like gardening some people just have good luck with doing minimal work while the rest of us stare in the tank and wonder what we could be doing better. I don't know that either way is wrong.

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12434873#post12434873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gsxunv04
Corals are made of calcium, so yes they use calcium from the water column, where else would they get it from? not the lights

not to sound like a smarta** or anything...but is someone dumping crates of B-ionic into the sydney harbour?

though i have forgotten more about chemistry/ biology then i ever thought possible i would have to assume that DOW and the manufactures of B-ionic arent dosing the ocean, yet the water still seems to have vast quantities of elements available, which leads me to believe the elements are coming from somewhere other then the water...slowly decaying reefs are my best guess...that and natural deposites etc...

that said, his tank "seems" to be doing fine and is growing incredibly slow which would only lead me to believe the corals are feeding off either the rock or the sand or themselves for the trace elements, of which we dont even know if they have any effect on the corals...

though i dont condone not doing water changes..i change my water once every two months, and very little at that...and yes i have a bit of algae...but i also feed every day...i think seeing this thread i will cut my feeding back to every two or three days and see if my 12 mangroves and cheato and skimmer can export the nutrients i have been building up..

worst comes to worst i go back to monthly changes...

 

[MyMonkey]

Great looking tank. Very interesting approach. The Nem up top is that an LTA and how long has it been there?

 

[gsxunv04]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12437810#post12437810 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reef Aquatics
Sorry gsxunv04....not doing water changes is wrong...and to tell someone that
hes not doing anything wrong when he clearly is... well that sounds like a noob
talking..

A "noob" I am not, if you read properly you would be able to see that I stated I religiously change 10g bi-weekly(that mean twice a week). Is that a noob type of husbandry because I would call it responsible reef keeping. I think we all know no water changes is not the way to go and I do not, the least, condone this type of husbandry. Theres more than one way to skin a cat and, as stated, he would achieve better growth with water changes, he likes the way he is doing it so get off his back. Unless your going to drive to this guys house and change his water for him, I think he has been instructed enough to change his own water. Repeatedly he has said he doesnt change it, and I believe he will continue not to do so. I will say it again I do no promote not doing water changes, I change 20g a week in my system, and if I was going to recomend anything I would say do a 20% change weekly(which some may see as too much). I have a clean tank, not one piece of hair algae, red slime, nor any other nuisance type of growth in my tank. I hold my water changes(general husbandry),my refugium with macro-algaes, and my protein skimmer accountable for my clean and spotless tank.

 

[Jimbo327]

Nanoreefwanabe,

I already mentioned that decaying corals can be another source of calcium in my first post. So you are definitely correct.

And the percentage of reef vs. the ocean is so small, that the ocean can maintain the calcium and other elements easily.

And like I said earlier, not doing water changes is totally fine. A reefer can choose how he wants to maintain his reef. Some people purposely not change water so they don't have to scrub coralline algae. I don't care either way, but I think most newbies need to do water changes because in the beginning of a reef, the tank is not mature enough...so water changes are necessary to export nutrients. And only once the reef is matured, with the right balance of bacteria and skimming/macro export, then they can start thinking about how they want to maintain their tanks. Some of us don't want newbies to look at this thread, and say to themselves, "hey, this guy is not doing water changes, so I don't need to", and if their tanks are not mature enough or doesn't have the right export mechanism, their tanks are going to go downhill and the inhabitants are going to die/suffer...needlessly.

 

[johno4]

Wow this turned to be an interesting discussion. This isnt that complecated, I am in no way saying that you should not do water changes. I am simply saying that you can maintain a tank without doing them. Yes you should and yes it is makes things easier but it is just not needed. Nutrient export can be/is done by skimming and a refugium. As far as essential elements, calcium and alk. B-ionic provides all of those thats why the tanks are running OK without having to change the water.

I have found over the years that the more I mess with the tank the more issues I encounter. I have found from my experiences that A stable system if set up with proper equipment and proper additives can be maintained with out water changes. Again I do not recommend this for every one I am simply saying it can be done.

The anemone in the tank is a BTA and is over 4 years old.

 

[Jimbo327]

^^ I've seen another tank that does not go through water changes either. It had 2 huge anemones and packed full of corals. Like you, they did dose B-Ionic, which is great ot maintain the calcium/alkalinity balance. I think you may need to check your magnesium though.

But this other tank without water changes was fully mature, and had a skimmer and macro in the tank. It was one of the most gorgeous tanks I've seen. So there is definitely more than 1 way to maintain a tank.

 

[johno4]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12440730#post12440730 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jimbo327
^^ I've seen another tank that does not go through water changes either. It had 2 huge anemones and packed full of corals. Like you, they did dose B-Ionic, which is great ot maintain the calcium/alkalinity balance. I think you may need to check your magnesium though.

But this other tank without water changes was fully mature, and had a skimmer and macro in the tank. It was one of the most gorgeous tanks I've seen. So there is definitely more than 1 way to maintain a tank.

I do agree with you the tank must be mature.

 

[tribalturtle2]

I have a 24g nano that i didnt do a water change for about 7-8 months, just recently did I do one. and the coraline algae was growing all over the rocks and getting super thick. The nano lighting is all stock "deluxe." ive done this with several other tanks as well. Im rebuilding my nano right now because the lights went out on it and money is tight. So i moved all my stuff into my 46 gallon bowfront. Im looking into combining the two tanks together with a sump eventually for the 46g. Then get a large tank for my small porcupine puffer(3" long currently). Does anyone know the growth rate for a porcupine puffer? I've been researching on the net all over the place but couldn't find anything on them even under its scientific name.

 

[AVALover5498]

So much drama.

-Chris-

 

[smilby36]

Now that he knows wc's are vital, but doesn't want to interupt his tank, maybe everyone should focus on the topic at hand.....his tank...Tank looks great regardless. Do what works best for you..Good luck

 

[gsxunv04]

I think we can all agree, water changes or no water changes everybody is entitled to their own husbadry techniques. If someone is doing something, it may not be how you do it, but if it works for them then let them be and no need for a flame fest telling them theyre wrong and they must do it your way. We can also agree that in this hobby there is no set way chiseld in stone, and I like the diversity of different methods that this hobby can be done.

 

[Flavum]

hmm ok so you can maintain a tank without doing water changes whoopedy doooo! almost every TOTM that has been on here advocates water changes. imagine what your tank could have looked like if water changes had been done

 

[Bluemorningwind]

Jimbo, Jumping to conclusions is silly. Your not silly, are you?


Broadly speaking, there isn't a single formula that equals success in reefing. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise.

In the end, it really doesn't matter that much if others use your personal ideas or not. Success isn't exclusively restricted to your personal ideas...thankfully. And Bogart80's tank is proof of that.

 

[Jimbo327]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12441567#post12441567 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bluemorningwind
Jimbo, Jumping to conclusions is silly. Your not silly, are you?


Broadly speaking, there isn't a single formula that equals success in reefing. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise.

In the end, it really doesn't matter that much if others use your personal ideas or not. Success isn't exclusively restricted to your personal ideas...thankfully. And Bogart80's tank is proof of that.

Why don't you try reading my previous response in this thread...geez, talk about jumping to conclusions. Look who's talking? :lol: Perhaps, Bluemorningwind is just my echo.

 

[3fins]

wow :eek1: :eek1:

 

[Bogart80]

As most of you can see through the photos the corals I have are very hardy ones. (mushrooms) They are growing someone asked if they where just frags, I assure you they are not. Now all my LR in the tank came from my FO tank and I let it cure in my tank two months b4 adding one thing, fish/coral. Its funny I notice new shells weekly, I’m not sure exactly why but I am not buying clam shells yet I see new ones all the time. And little tube worms ALL OVER THE TANK and I do mean everywhere. I honestly can not express just how many new things I see in the tank weekly.

I would like to know what is a very difficult coral to keep. The reason I ask is I would like to move away from the very easy to keep corals and see if I can maintain a hard to keep coral. If I start to see a decline in the corals heath then I most certainly need to change my technique. With that being said at this point I AM NOT GOING TO CHANGE ONE THING

I thank everyone for their comments even you Longchamp