Non Reef Question

[expat701]

Hi,

I'm sorry that this is not a Reef question but I was unsure of where I could ask this question of Tunze and get an answer...

My question is around your Freshwater Substrate Heating Cables... I understand and believe the theory of heating cables in a planted tank, my question is how do you stop plant roots getting wrapped around and tangled up in the cables???

I'm concerned that if the roots do get tangled up, you'll pull the cables off the bottom when rearranging the plants in the tank (something I do all the time)...

If you don't know the answer, (as it's non Reef) would you kindly ask the question back at Tunze? I'd be interested in their response.

Thanks in advance!

 

[AcroporAddict]

I'm not from Tunze, but I have a 265 gallon planted tank and about 12 years planted tank experience.

You cannot stop plant roots from getting caught up in the cables if they grow ariound them. Plants like amazon swords and cryptocoryne spiralis have extensive root structures and can actually bind up large sections of the substrte into large chunks.

Personally, I have had successful planted tanks for the last 12 years without substrate cables. I have friends that swear by them, but have never found them necessary for a successful tank.

IMO they are an unnecessary, expensive accessory and only make for more maintenance work for the very reason you started this thread.
Dave

 

[rvitko]

I have kept plant tanks most of my life and I have had the best results with heating cables. I know of no way to stop the roots from growing around the cables. I layout my tank the way I want it and the only thing I do is prune and occasionally refresh my stem plants and chain swords by thinning them but these generally do not produce the dense root structure that will lift the cables. I generally follow the Dupla method and I use Dupla cables at home. In their methodology the main purpose of the cables is two fold. To prevent anoxic areas from forming by creating a convection current and to bind phosphates to the laterite through the same convection current. I find the roots are more vigorous with the cables and it prevents a lot of the new start up issues with anoxic zones in the gravel that may form before the roots can penetrate. You can go without but I think they are worth while, especially if you have a deep gravel bed, I use 4" of fine 2-3mm grain size gravel and I add laterite, peat and fine sand. I have always kept biotope tanks and my present set up is South American so I have mainly swords, some stargrass, and some val and bacopa as well as some potamogeton. My tank is a 180 with two large specimen swords an Uruguayensis and a Rubin. These are the only two plants that I cannot remove without ripping out the cables but even without the cables moving these plants would be a major set back to the balance of the tank and a successful plant tank is all about having the plants beat the algae to the nutrients so the algae never get a chance. Anything you do that disrupts the plants, helps the algae so in general I would never move anything. I have learned to thin and work towards a landscape slowly by pruning to avoid any major disruption and carefully plan where specimen plants will go. In the past when I kept a Southeast Asia tank I had Crypts grow onto the cables but my personal experience was the cables in addition to using soft water with a very small amount of sea salt (1 teaspoon per 5 gallons) helped prevent crypt rot and Crypts tend to look quite nice when they have made a dense carpet and you can just remove new runners before they establish.

 

[rvitko]

By the way, we have not made heating cables in 2 years so I have no running interest in selling them. The above is my honest opinion. We offered a heating cable set, the market was small and unprofitable so we abandoned it but we do still have cables in stock but they are deeply discounted and Aquariumplants.com is selling what we have remaining. I do prefer the Dupla sets personally because they heat the whole tank. In all honesty, Dennerle is the ultimate but you can't get them here. They have a neat dual stage controller that runs a tube heater and gravel heater and only shuts off the gravel heater when tank temp has been exceded by 2 degrees. In my 180 I use a Duplaflex 750 and in the winter I add a Rena Cal 300. I keep my tank at 82.

 

[expat701]

Roger,

Thank you for your informative and detailed reply. I really appreciated the fact that although you don't really deal with cables these days, you took the time to answer my question.

What you say makes sense - if you are going to use cables you need to plan will ahead.

One question would using a gravel tidy (sheet of mesh material) sitting above the cables help the plant root issues? Or would it hinder the convection flows and benefits of laterite in the lowest layer (I'm assuming you'd lay the cable then add the layer of gravel and laterite THEN place the gravel tidy and top up with gravel to the desired depth). I think they use gavel tidies in the UK in this way... but I could be wrong on that.

 

[rvitko]

It could work but besides plant tanks I am an avid gardener, I am one of those guys that has to have the nicest lawn in the neighborhood and I can tell you plants always find a way to root through something. Just last weekend I redid my walkway with pavers and the old walkway was brick and some English Ivy and rooted through every hole in the brick making a solid mat of brick and roots that was almost impossible to remove, I had to use a pick axe. I would think the roots would pass through. In the past I tried Eheim's reverse flow undergravel filter with a heated canister filter as a cheaper gravel heater solution and it worked very well but it was awkward with all the parts and plumbing. The plants rooted through the holes in the plate which were quite small. On my drive home from work their is a 4" trunk paper mulberry growing through a 1" expansion gap in a sidewalk, plants tend to have an incredible amount of power to do what they need to to survive so I wouldn't count on being able to block the roots.

 

[expat701]

LOL... Roger, I take your point. Thanks for all your help.