Noobs!!
- Thread starter dcombs44
- Start date
McCrary
Can't Stop Time
After reading this thread and the other thread linked on the previous page, it seems that most would expect a novice to differentiate between two differing, if not conflicting, sets of advice. Obviously some novice hobbyists are going to research the opinions that are offered to them and will be able to distinguish between the bad advice that was offered and the good advice. But I think a lot of novices in this hobby aren't going to be doing additional research to answer their question and therefore won't be able to distinguish between an illegitimate solution and a legitimate one. The threads started by new hobbyists typically ask questions to specific problems, any advice given will probably be taken as fact and implemented, unless it is shown to be faulty by another reefer. As I doubt any new hobbyist is intentionally spreading misinformation, it would seem that any information given by a fellow reefer would be believed to be correct, even if it isn't. If incorrect information is presented by a someone they obviously believe it to be correct, at least enough so to present it as their opinion. Simply offering another opinion is probably not going to sway them as the information that they previously offered is right in their mind. As the largest source of misinformation seems to be from new hobbyists (and me, lol) they are probably not going to take the time to research the opinion you gave them, if they were the type to research opinions presented to them they would have determined that the opinion that was given to them originally, which they are now basing their own opinions on, is incorrect. If a novice is offering advice that is incorrect the experienced reefers need to offer a more correct opinion and show why that opinion is more correct than the other. The spread of misinformation is reliant on more experienced reefers not offering their advice and/or not showing how that advice may be the better solution to a given problem.
Peter Eichler
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10278559#post10278559 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dc
And everyone got ticked off and left.I'm not sure that did AL any favors. I can say that as a long time mod there and very short term admin.
I think Aqualink had it's own set of problems besides that. But you're right, Aqualink could be a brutal place for people not experienced in the hobby. Hell, it could be a brutal place for those experienced, just imply something bad about Thiel and you have an instant flamewar :lol:
Dc, I know I'd appreciate it if you keep this thread in this forum. Hopefully more people will see it and they will think twice about posting info they are not sure about.
J
johnski
just caught this thread , one of the things i like to see when someone posts information is a point of reference, if it was a personal experience/observation , then provide the scenario. If it was something you read , then post the link of the relevant article.
just my 2p worth
just my 2p worth
Fraggle Rock2
New member
I would think if one would read some bad advice they would make an attempt to correct it or offer an alternative.
Personally, when I reply, I try to refer to articles from Reefkeeping Online or Advanced Aquarist online, or threads in which said experts have contributed. At the very least I use some type of disclaimer.
I don't think there is much else that can be done.
Overall, the forums with expert moderators like Randy Holmes Farley didn't seem to have these problems since the experts were there to correct [or actually even answer] them.
Unfortunately, I think it's impossible to have a panel of experts moderate a forum such as "Reef Discussion" due to volume. Not to mention that reefkeeping is still in it's infancy and not an exact science like chemistry.
I am not sure how many times I have actually seen completely incorrect advice. I mean if someone says "You must have a skimmer or you will fail" or you "must have metal halides to keep SPS", well I probably wouldn't agree with that advice but I am fairly certain that if that convinced someone to use a skimmer or buy MHs that nothing bad would come of it (besides denting the pocketbook).
Also, I am fairly confident that if someone did actually give pretty bad advice like "you should dip your SPS in freshwater for an hour to kill the bugs" that many of the RC members would jump all over it.
It just points to the importance of doing as much research as possible from reliable resources.
Of course, that reminded me of something that happened to me. When I first set up my tank I researched how to help control hair algae. I read through quite a number of threads about lettuce nudibranch's and how they were great for hair algae. Naturally, after I bought one and read some more I found out that they only really like to eat bryopsis. I concluded it's really just the nature of a hobby such as reefkeeping where there are few true experts [and what is known is probably very limited anyways] and too many pundits.
Personally, when I reply, I try to refer to articles from Reefkeeping Online or Advanced Aquarist online, or threads in which said experts have contributed. At the very least I use some type of disclaimer.
I don't think there is much else that can be done.
Overall, the forums with expert moderators like Randy Holmes Farley didn't seem to have these problems since the experts were there to correct [or actually even answer] them.
Unfortunately, I think it's impossible to have a panel of experts moderate a forum such as "Reef Discussion" due to volume. Not to mention that reefkeeping is still in it's infancy and not an exact science like chemistry.
I am not sure how many times I have actually seen completely incorrect advice. I mean if someone says "You must have a skimmer or you will fail" or you "must have metal halides to keep SPS", well I probably wouldn't agree with that advice but I am fairly certain that if that convinced someone to use a skimmer or buy MHs that nothing bad would come of it (besides denting the pocketbook).
Also, I am fairly confident that if someone did actually give pretty bad advice like "you should dip your SPS in freshwater for an hour to kill the bugs" that many of the RC members would jump all over it.
It just points to the importance of doing as much research as possible from reliable resources.
Of course, that reminded me of something that happened to me. When I first set up my tank I researched how to help control hair algae. I read through quite a number of threads about lettuce nudibranch's and how they were great for hair algae. Naturally, after I bought one and read some more I found out that they only really like to eat bryopsis. I concluded it's really just the nature of a hobby such as reefkeeping where there are few true experts [and what is known is probably very limited anyways] and too many pundits.
i think its been quite civil, if it stays like this i see no need.
people have to remember that everyone is entitled to there opinion and they have just as much right to post it as anyone else. and i agree that if someone has a differing opinion or "fact" that they should offer it. what i haven't seen mentioned is its not always the person trying to correct/counter someones point that gets a tude but more often the person being corrected.
dcombs44
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10279320#post10279320 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Excuse me but I am a Noob, is this the place I go to find out how to take care of fish? I have a halibut in my nano and I would like to know if it is OK that he can't turn around.
Please don't flame me because I am afraid of everything.
Nooby
I'm also a noob, but to answer your question, if you add a gallon of ich-b-gone, your halibut will be totally fine and will never have any problems in that tank.:lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks for the humor Paul. I couldn't decide if I wanted to play the part of the bad advising noob or the guy that came in and called you an idiot for asking a stupid question.
Peter Eichler
New member
You're both noobs, those of us that are experienced know that the Halibut needs a Maracyn 2 dip!
i am a noob i will admit.
but i can also learn things very fast.
for one i have seen that with all the experts out there theres a hundred differant ways of doing things .
i have gave advice to some new people out there because others havent bothered to post in there thread.
but i only give what i have learned and read .
i read these forums everyday and i look up stuff everyday .
for the most part alot of the people give good infoe.
but what gets me is someone comeing into a thread for example
someone whats to know about a skimmer and say they got a coral life supper skimmer.
then someone comes in and says thats not a good skimmer you need to get a bubbleking or somehting like that.
for one i cant aford a bubble king or some of the other top name skimmers.
alot of the noobs cant afford them either so they have to get what they can .
i have a supper skimmer i dont have a problem with it, it works fine.
dont like the way it looks in the tank but hey untill i can get a sump or something to put it in then it will have to do .
but this happens all the time people putting down stuff that might be cheaper but works . and telling a noob they need to get all this top of the line equipment.
There are some out there that understand and tell a noob that what they have is fine and how to mod it to make it better .
now to me thats someone that helps someone who knows how to get by with what they got and tell others how to .
my reef is doing fine with the canister filter and supperskimmer i have on it.
i do everything manually i have no top off or dosers or reactors.
so if i sugest to someone who ask about what to do i can tell them what i have done . and i guess that makes me wrong and giveing bad advice. well get off you high horse and look at some advice you might have given int eh past im sure you have been wrong on more then once.
but i can also learn things very fast.
for one i have seen that with all the experts out there theres a hundred differant ways of doing things .
i have gave advice to some new people out there because others havent bothered to post in there thread.
but i only give what i have learned and read .
i read these forums everyday and i look up stuff everyday .
for the most part alot of the people give good infoe.
but what gets me is someone comeing into a thread for example
someone whats to know about a skimmer and say they got a coral life supper skimmer.
then someone comes in and says thats not a good skimmer you need to get a bubbleking or somehting like that.
for one i cant aford a bubble king or some of the other top name skimmers.
alot of the noobs cant afford them either so they have to get what they can .
i have a supper skimmer i dont have a problem with it, it works fine.
dont like the way it looks in the tank but hey untill i can get a sump or something to put it in then it will have to do .
but this happens all the time people putting down stuff that might be cheaper but works . and telling a noob they need to get all this top of the line equipment.
There are some out there that understand and tell a noob that what they have is fine and how to mod it to make it better .
now to me thats someone that helps someone who knows how to get by with what they got and tell others how to .
my reef is doing fine with the canister filter and supperskimmer i have on it.
i do everything manually i have no top off or dosers or reactors.
so if i sugest to someone who ask about what to do i can tell them what i have done . and i guess that makes me wrong and giveing bad advice. well get off you high horse and look at some advice you might have given int eh past im sure you have been wrong on more then once.
Paul B
Premium Member
I was lucky when I started with salt because there was no advice.
It was very easy because I knew that everything I was doing was wrong :lol:
There were no "experts" no books no computers and no advice. I did everything by trial and error, mostly error but when we learned something (and it took a long time) we learned why we learned it and we discovered many ways of not to do something.
You would be amazed of the enormosity of information that I know that is wrong :eek1:
I rarely give information to noobs about how to set up a tank because I don't feel I am the correct person for that. You can not set up a tank like mine since it took many years to evovlve and I am not sure you should. I also don't give advice about brands of equipment because I don't own any commercially built equipment.
I do remember when just about all of the aquarium equipment became available and I have used a good portion of it. I have always reverted back to my own ancient technology.
I have been reading all of the aquarium magazines and still have copies of "The Marine Aquarist" which was printed in black and white in the sixtees. I also remember when all the "Experts" became experts.
There is still advice given that I know is wrong but it is so prevelent that it is taken as fact now like using cleaner shrimp to cure ich. Or lettuce nudibranchs for hair algae. There is no such thing as a lettuce nudibranch (they are slugs).
The discussions about what size tank you need for certain fish are always entertaining as well as the natural sea water posts.
Anyway I find that the vast majority of hobbiests here are helpful, knowledgable and really try to help noobs.
As for people flaming me, it gives me goose bumps
Have a great day.
Paul:lol:
It was very easy because I knew that everything I was doing was wrong :lol:
There were no "experts" no books no computers and no advice. I did everything by trial and error, mostly error but when we learned something (and it took a long time) we learned why we learned it and we discovered many ways of not to do something.
You would be amazed of the enormosity of information that I know that is wrong :eek1:
I rarely give information to noobs about how to set up a tank because I don't feel I am the correct person for that. You can not set up a tank like mine since it took many years to evovlve and I am not sure you should. I also don't give advice about brands of equipment because I don't own any commercially built equipment.
I do remember when just about all of the aquarium equipment became available and I have used a good portion of it. I have always reverted back to my own ancient technology.
I have been reading all of the aquarium magazines and still have copies of "The Marine Aquarist" which was printed in black and white in the sixtees. I also remember when all the "Experts" became experts.
There is still advice given that I know is wrong but it is so prevelent that it is taken as fact now like using cleaner shrimp to cure ich. Or lettuce nudibranchs for hair algae. There is no such thing as a lettuce nudibranch (they are slugs).
The discussions about what size tank you need for certain fish are always entertaining as well as the natural sea water posts.
Anyway I find that the vast majority of hobbiests here are helpful, knowledgable and really try to help noobs.
As for people flaming me, it gives me goose bumps
Have a great day.
Paul:lol:
Last edited:
Here's my input as a certified expert in nothing The responsibility of discerning between good and bad advice :idea: rests completely on "you" the "educated" hobbist
Before you begin and come on here asking question you should have done your home work reading up on everything pertaining to the husbandry of reef techniques :reading: If you don't then you are a sitting duck & sucker :hmm4: in waiting for every bad advice out there because you couldn't tell the difference anyway until the truth crashed on you.
So stop shifting blame around and take a good long look at your :hmm2: mirror's reflection. There's no short cuts to proper research and education. Forums are just that, where people exchange ideas and advice without any guarantees. The responsibility to execute on any given information are totally yours.
Speaking of experts...I have read and taken quiet a few bad and even disasterous advices from them. But ultimately it was my fault for choosing the wrong options. Reminds you of losing points on a school exam for picking the wrong choices eh? :bum:
The responsibility of discerning between good and bad advice :idea: rests completely on "you" the "educated" hobbist Before you begin and come on here asking question you should have done your home work reading up on everything pertaining to the husbandry of reef techniques :reading: If you don't then you are a sitting duck & sucker :hmm4: in waiting for every bad advice out there because you couldn't tell the difference anyway until the truth crashed on you.
So stop shifting blame around and take a good long look at your :hmm2: mirror's reflection. There's no short cuts to proper research and education. Forums are just that, where people exchange ideas and advice without any guarantees. The responsibility to execute on any given information are totally yours.
Speaking of experts...I have read and taken quiet a few bad and even disasterous advices from them. But ultimately it was my fault for choosing the wrong options. Reminds you of losing points on a school exam for picking the wrong choices eh? :bum:
Peter Eichler
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10282821#post10282821 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by plandy
Here's my input as a certified expert in nothing
Before you begin and come on here asking question you should have done your home work reading up on everything pertaining to the husbandry of reef techniques :reading: If you don't then you are a sitting duck & sucker :hmm4: in waiting for every bad advice out there because you couldn't tell the difference anyway until the truth crashed on you.
So stop shifting blame around and take a good long look at your :hmm2: mirror's reflection. There's no short cuts to proper research and education. Forums are just that, where people exchange ideas and advice without any guarantees. The responsibility to execute on any given information are totally yours.
Speaking of experts...I have read and taken quiet a few bad and even disasterous advices from them. But ultimately it was my fault for choosing the wrong options. Reminds you of losing points on a school exam for picking the wrong choices eh? :bum:
Just curious, what advice have you gotten from the "experts" that was "bad" or "disasterous"?
dcombs44
New member
I really don't think that anybody in this thread is on a high horse, and nobody here has claimed to be perfect. It's been mentioned several times that many different methods will work in this hobby, and many people start with a system that is far from automated. That angle hasn't really been one that's been viewed in this thread. Although, probably 80% or more people here would probably say that there are better methods than using a canister filter, there are ways to turn a canister into a useful tool if that's all you have to work with. To be honest though, you can build a 10 or 20 gallon sump with a decent pump for around the same price that you can buy some canister filters. I think most people would be simply suggesting the sump over the canister simply for water volume if nothing else, which I don't think anyone would argue that the more water the better. IMHO.
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