Noobs!!

[lpsluver]

Just chiming in the give my 2 cents. Present company excluded, there is also another mentality that can be a problem and that is, number of posts is directly proportional to practical experience. This corollary works in both directions. This is why we should all consider replies as advice and formulate our conclusions on what we feel is best based on a lot of cumulative research. And quit with the negativity just because you are anonymous. Be nice or be gone.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10277969#post10277969 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
There is a lot of bad info being passed around, and it seems to grow exponentially as the forum grows. A sort of rating system would be one posibility where when someone posts good advice you can give them positive feedback and when they post blatantly incorrect info you can give them negative feedback. Other forums have it and it can work, but I'm not sure how well it would work here. For instance, I'd hate to see people getting negative feedback just because someone doesn't agree with an opinion. On the other hand, if there was a chance of getting negative feedback I think it would deter a lot of people from posting info they aren't very sure of.

Agreed, and I wouldn't mind seeing that enstated.

 

[dcombs44]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10277996#post10277996 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lpsluver
Just chiming in the give my 2 cents. Present company excluded, there is also another mentality that can be a problem and that is, number of posts is directly proportional to practical experience. This corollary works in both directions. This is why we should all consider replies as advice and formulate our conclusions on what we feel is best based on a lot of cumulative research. And quit with the negativity just because you are anonymous. Be nice or be gone.

Good points. I am guilty of looking at the number of posts that a person has when answering some of my questions. Of course, I've also been here long enough to know the names of some of the big dogs.

Also, it would be nice to have some sort of rating system. I realize this would make for much extra work for the mods and such, but if the mods/team rc/staff folks did the rating when they noticed a good informative post, that would probably be one of the most legit methods of rating the members.

 

[dc]

I would just like to add, that when someone does get corrected for giving wrong info, it should be politely done. No need to chastise the person...a simple correction will do, IMO.

This would be nice. Unfortunately the name calling negates any good information you may be giving.

Just chiming in the give my 2 cents. Present company excluded, there is also another mentality that can be a problem and that is, number of posts is directly proportional to practical experience. This corollary works in both directions. This is why we should all consider replies as advice and formulate our conclusions on what we feel is best based on a lot of cumulative research. And quit with the negativity just because you are anonymous. Be nice or be gone.

This is especially true. I am a perfect example. I've been here many years. I run my tanks so simply that there are things I know nothing about. I'm more interested in the 'bugs' in our tanks than most anything else. That's what I pay attention to. I know squat about calcium reactors. People tend to know more about what they like. Time and posts sometimes mean nothing. When I first came here, I actually searched peoples posts to see who I thought had a clue.

Also, it would be nice to have some sort of rating system. I realize this would make for much extra work for the mods and such, but if the mods/team rc/staff folks did the rating when they noticed a good informative post, that would probably be one of the most legit methods of rating the members.

I don't see this feasible at all. And that would have to do with my above comments. It's hard enough to pick and choose which posts to try and moderate as it is. And I imagine the rest of Team/mods/staff have the same 'expertise' as I do.

If people would report bad advice, just like trolls it might help also.

 

[aznlmpulse]

Not to start an argument, but I think it's quite comical that you guys have 2-4 yrs of reef experience (regardless of posting 10 times/day every single day for the last 3-4 years), and call it knowledge. I have 5+ years under my belt, and I wouldn't ever have the gall to start a thread like this one.

I do agree with oct2274 that there are certifiable noobs hiding behind the "10+ years" badge here.

This forum, or any forum for that matter will never be able to regulate the type of advice that its members have to offer one another. While it's a good idea to encourage prudent, worth-while advice giving only, there will always be people (such as yourselves) that stand tall on their "2000+ posts" soapbox (regardless of actual experience or success in the hobby) and only add to the growing problem.

 

[dcombs44]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10278140#post10278140 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aznlmpulse
Not to start an argument, but I think it's quite comical that you guys have 2-4 yrs of reef experience (regardless of posting 10 times/day every single day for the last 3-4 years), and call it knowledge. I have 5+ years under my belt, and I wouldn't ever have the gall to start a thread like this one.

I do agree with oct2274 that there are certifiable noobs hiding behind the "10+ years" badge here.

This forum, or any forum for that matter will never be able to regulate the type of advice that its members have to offer one another. While it's a good idea to encourage prudent, worth-while advice giving only, there will always be people (such as yourselves) that stand tall on their "2000+ posts" soapbox (regardless of actual experience or success in the hobby) and only add to the growing problem.

I don't think any one of us ever bosted having a wealth of knowledge. I was just mentioning the statements made that most people with a fair amount of experience would be able to point out as wrong. I still ask questions here every day, and would never consider myself a pro.

I do know 1000 times more than I did when I started, but I still have yet to scratch the surface of the information out there. I really don't understand why people can't discuss something without other people trying to read into the point behind it and make comments that don't need to be made like the one about "people like us" standing on their soapbox. Nobody in this thread has that mentality in the least.

DC:
I agree that my idea wouldn't be at all feasible, just the only legit method that I could come up with.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10278140#post10278140 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aznlmpulse
Not to start an argument, but I think it's quite comical that you guys have 2-4 yrs of reef experience (regardless of posting 10 times/day every single day for the last 3-4 years), and call it knowledge. I have 5+ years under my belt, and I wouldn't ever have the gall to start a thread like this one.

I do agree with oct2274 that there are certifiable noobs hiding behind the "10+ years" badge here.

This forum, or any forum for that matter will never be able to regulate the type of advice that its members have to offer one another. While it's a good idea to encourage prudent, worth-while advice giving only, there will always be people (such as yourselves) that stand tall on their "2000+ posts" soapbox (regardless of actual experience or success in the hobby) and only add to the growing problem.

I'm sorry that you feel that way. I never came in here and called myself an expert because of my post count. If anything, it proves that I have a lot of extra time. But then again, what does a limited amount of years experience with hand on stuff have to do with knowledge? There are many ways to be knowledgable without actually having to have a reef tank at all. Heck, take LeslieH, our resident worm wrangler, for example. Been here since '04, about 1500 posts, and doesn't even have a fish tank (unless she started one up recently), yet she is quite the worm authority. Of course, it doesn't help if you head the Polychaete worm section of the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles All I'm trying to say is yes, it doesn't matter how many posts you have. I can agree with you there, but assuming someone is or isn't knowledgable depending on post count, time on the board, or time with an aquarium is just about absurd. Let their actions and words speak for themselves, and pray that the person getting the advice is willing to do some independent research on the person, advice, and alternative options.

 

[mbbuna]

i dont think a rating system would work nor appointing "someone in the know" as a local guru. something similar was brought up by team rc a month ago or so http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1125682

it really is the responsibility of the original poster to sift through the info given, do a little of there own research to find the right answer. its also very easy to search someone post history to find out what quality of info they typically give.

 

[lubricus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10278140#post10278140 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aznlmpulse
Not to start an argument, but I think it's quite comical that you guys have 2-4 yrs of reef experience (regardless of posting 10 times/day every single day for the last 3-4 years), and call it knowledge. I have 5+ years under my belt, and I wouldn't ever have the gall to start a thread like this one.

I do agree with oct2274 that there are certifiable noobs hiding behind the "10+ years" badge here.

This forum, or any forum for that matter will never be able to regulate the type of advice that its members have to offer one another. While it's a good idea to encourage prudent, worth-while advice giving only, there will always be people (such as yourselves) that stand tall on their "2000+ posts" soapbox (regardless of actual experience or success in the hobby) and only add to the growing problem.

It sure sounds like your trying to start something to me! :rolleye1:

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10278140#post10278140 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aznlmpulse
Not to start an argument, but I think it's quite comical that you guys have 2-4 yrs of reef experience (regardless of posting 10 times/day every single day for the last 3-4 years), and call it knowledge. I have 5+ years under my belt, and I wouldn't ever have the gall to start a thread like this one.

I do agree with oct2274 that there are certifiable noobs hiding behind the "10+ years" badge here.

This forum, or any forum for that matter will never be able to regulate the type of advice that its members have to offer one another. While it's a good idea to encourage prudent, worth-while advice giving only, there will always be people (such as yourselves) that stand tall on their "2000+ posts" soapbox (regardless of actual experience or success in the hobby) and only add to the growing problem.

A. I don't think anyone on this thread claimed to be an expert in anything, due to post count, or experience, or any other reason.

B. I don't think anyone accused you of giving out bad info, so why the 'tude?

C. If you have to start a post with "Not to start an argument, but..." you are trying to start an argument, IMO.

 

[1F2FRFBF]

Taking advice from anyone you don't know is one of those "buyer beware" things. But I think you can pretty much tell if someone's full of it or not.

"Bad" can also be subjective. For example, if you're a tech junkie, you're going to find it hard to imagine how anyone could get along without the latest gadget. If you like the bare-bones approach, you're probably going to see no value whatsoever in having any gadgets whatsoever.

The nice thing about the forum is that if you see what you think might be bad advice, you are perfectly welcome to counter that with your own opinion and then the readers will have a couple different viewpoints to consider and do further research on. And hopefully you go about your business in a polite, civil manner.

But IMHO almost every post can be valuable in some way, because they can not only teach us what TO do, they can also teach us what NOT to do.

 

[Peter Eichler]

Back in the days of Fishnet and Aqualink it seemed that when someone posted incorrect info they got called on it. It was not overly polite when it happened, but it was usually enough to let the person know that they better know their stuff if they're going to be handing out advice but not to the point of being rude. It's a fine line, but I don't think it's ok to allow people that don't know what they're talking about to go around posting bad info.

If some of these "noobs" were a little better with presenting things as the opinion of someone without a lot of experience it wouldn't be an issue. But I see too many posts where the bad info is presented as if it's fact rather than a shot in the dark from someone that thinks they might know something.

 

[dcombs44]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10278298#post10278298 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
Back in the days of Fishnet and Aqualink it seemed that when someone posted incorrect info they got called on it. It was not overly polite when it happened, but it was usually enough to let the person know that they better know their stuff if they're going to be handing out advice but not to the point of being rude. It's a fine line, but I don't think it's ok to allow people that don't know what they're talking about to go around posting bad info.

If some of these "noobs" were a little better with presenting things as the opinion of someone without a lot of experience it wouldn't be an issue. But I see too many posts where the bad info is presented as if it's fact rather than a shot in the dark from someone that thinks they might know something.

That was the exact point of my thread. Not to state that I know everything, but to state that there are some things that most people here do know, and some BRAND new people state the opposite like they know it's a fact, and not just an opinion or a possible answer to a question. I make a point that if I don't know an answer for sure to tell the poster that asked the question to wait for more answers and compare. Thanks Peter!

 

[mildew]

As a relative noob, and trying to do things right, doesn't this thread perhaps belong in the Feedback and Questions Forum which is more of a housekeeping forum - this being a housekeeping topic? I've been into reefkeeping just 2 years, and I've answered some questions from other noobs when I've had experience that I thought might prove helpful. I don't think I've ever slammed some one but have read slams against some of those now missing names. I really do miss some of those people. They were people with knowledge and experience and a research base and their absence has weakened RC. When I am looking for help and ask a question I generally look at the number of posts by the individual posting and their hobby experience fully realizing that 10 years of the same experience is not 10 years of experience. I just wish some of noobs asking questions would take their time to look through the forums for an answer before asking, and I wish that the people responding with "I don't happen to know anything about this but I'm sorry about your "situation" wouldn't. Please forgive me for stepping into this discussion.

 

[Grins]

I'm a salt water newbie but not new to forums and how they work. In my opinion the best recourse is simply to have active participation by members so that people with questions can sort through advice and make a decision on which way to go.

If you see me giving out advice you don't agree with by all means add your own two cents in. I've learned a lot since I first started this hobby 3 months ago but with every bit I learn I discover how much I don't know. Isn't that true with anything?

Frankly anyone that is in this hobby should have more than one resource and if they are leaping to take the first bit of advice they get on anything they have a bigger issue to address.

 

[REV]

Interesting. I have nothing to add, just trying to boost my post count so I won't look like a noob!:lol:

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Now that's funny I don't care who ya are!

 

[dcombs44]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10278370#post10278370 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mildew
As a relative noob, and trying to do things right, doesn't this thread perhaps belong in the Feedback and Questions Forum which is more of a housekeeping forum - this being a housekeeping topic? I've been into reefkeeping just 2 years, and I've answered some questions from other noobs when I've had experience that I thought might prove helpful. I don't think I've ever slammed some one but have read slams against some of those now missing names. I really do miss some of those people. They were people with knowledge and experience and a research base and their absence has weakened RC. When I am looking for help and ask a question I generally look at the number of posts by the individual posting and their hobby experience fully realizing that 10 years of the same experience is not 10 years of experience. I just wish some of noobs asking questions would take their time to look through the forums for an answer before asking, and I wish that the people responding with "I don't happen to know anything about this but I'm sorry about your "situation" wouldn't. Please forgive me for stepping into this discussion.

There is a forum moderator involved in this forum. I was assuming more people would see the thread here as it is the most viewed forum on the site. I suppose if it needed to be moved, the mod would move it.

I guess I don't see your point about people sympathizing with others over problems either. People that aren't involved in the hobby probably wouldn't care that my $50 fish just died, they just think I'm stupid for spending $50 on a fish; whereas, you can come here and people relate to you. Even if they can't help they're there to say, hey we've been there too, we know how it feels, and good luck. I can understand where it does congest things a bit, but it's still good to know that other people genuinely care.

 

[dc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10276937#post10276937 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy
I would just like to add, that when someone does get corrected for giving wrong info, it should be politely done. No need to chastise the person...a simple correction will do, IMO.

*AHEM*

 

[MrSpiffy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10278413#post10278413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REV
Interesting. I have nothing to add, just trying to boost my post count so I won't look like a noob!:lol:

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Now that's funny I don't care who ya are!

LOL!

"Lord, I apologize fer that one there... and please be with all the starving Pygmies down there in New Guinea."


Getting back on topic... I've been watching this thread so far, and I have to agree on several points.

1. Post counts don't mean jack. If someone's got 10 years under their belt, but have been doing things exactly the same way for 10 years, that doesn't count as 10 years' experience to me. And people with low post counts may have some very good advice to give. Listen to people. Do some research. And make the best decision you can from what you have.

2. There's no need to be rude or mean when rebutting poor information or incorrect opinions. But this needs to be done! Without differing opinions, there wouldn't be any discussion! Discussion is good! Flamewars are not... :rolleye1:

3. It's good to add your opinion to a discussion. After all, it's an opinion. They're allowed! But if you're unsure about your information, do NOT portray it as fact. I try very hard to let people know if it's something I've simply heard from others and haven't tried yet. If I'm not sure about something, I say so. People need to be aware that the information they receive may not be 100% valid.

4. I've seen no one on their soapbox here, except for a certain someone who didn't "want to start an argument". If there's one thing I've learned from life, not just RC, it's this: Don't point fingers at other people unless you can prove you're right. Jumping to conclusions or pointing fingers over debatable information never got anyone anywhere good. Take in all the feedback and make a relatively informed, educated decision as to how to proceed. But, (and I can't stress this enough...) DON'T POINT FINGERS! We've all made mistakes. Correct me if I give bad advice. But don't crush me cause I'm a n00b. People don't take kindly to that sort of treatment. I suppose this reiterates point #2, but still...

*WHEW!* :lol: Okay, I'm done now... This n00b is finished ranting. Please... continue the discussion!

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10278513#post10278513 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dc
*AHEM*