OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11424762#post11424762 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by triggerfish1976
BTW - I have yet to notice any heat issues on mine and they are basically in enclosed boxes.

How about posting what temp. yours are running at? I find it hard to believe, based on what I have seen in my system, other's systems, and the many posts about heat online, that running yours inside those boxes isn't presenting any heat build-up.

I could be wrong of course, but that just seems to be an impossibility to me. What are the heat sinks running at, and what speed and program do you have them on?

 

[triggerfish1976]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11426527#post11426527 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
How about posting what temp. yours are running at? I find it hard to believe, based on what I have seen in my system, other's systems, and the many posts about heat online, that running yours inside those boxes isn't presenting any heat build-up.

I could be wrong of course, but that just seems to be an impossibility to me. What are the heat sinks running at, and what speed and program do you have them on?

I ran them for a couple of days on full speed and I did a temp. measurement of the inside of the box and it read 82 degrees and this was the one with the two pumps in one box. I have a decent amount of air movement in my canopy area from fans that I use to keep the tank itself cool so I am sure that the area is helping disipate the heat. I would also imagine that the water surrounding the box is also cooling the inside air a little as well.
The temp. dips down into the high 70's when I run the pumps on reef crest mode.

 

[jnarowe]

Very interesting. I hadn't thought about the water cooling effect. You may have just created a new add-on for Eco-Tech!

I am still curious about what the heat sinks are at. For me, if my tank room got up to 80F, my pumps at 100% would run at 140F plus. If your boxes are above that, then your pumps may be running as hot as mine. This can be noted easily if you run them at 100% and observe for a while. When the pumps get up to their rated max temp. they will slow down and that will be visible to you.

 

[triggerfish1976]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11427122#post11427122 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Very interesting. I hadn't thought about the water cooling effect. You may have just created a new add-on for Eco-Tech!

Liquid cooled would be a nice mod.:lol:

 

[triggerfish1976]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11425927#post11425927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefArtist
Not sure if that was a mis-statement but I think it's more of what caused the crazing. The only acrylic tanks that I've seen with crazing has been at the top and the cause was heat from MH.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. My point was it has been proven that under built tanks are prone to crazing when excess heat is applied thus the lighting example. For some reason I was given the impression that the pump that caused the deep crazing was located near the top and not in the center or bottom portion of the tank.

 

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11427513#post11427513 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by triggerfish1976
Liquid cooled would be a nice mod.:lol:

It is doable but would be dificult and cumbersome. Would require an additional pump just for the water circulation for instance and that will make the whole thing very big and ungainly. IMO the best option is a good CPU type cooling fan/heat sink unit built onto the motor itself

 

[bmwaaron]

Here are some pictures of my temps. This is the Vortech running at 100% for 20 mins (usually I run it about 60-70%).

This picture shows the temp and the back of the heat sink.

This is the temp right at the tank and the pump.

The ambient temperature when this picture was taken was 74 F

I have never seen a temperature higher then 86 ish when I run it at my normal speeds.

I think taking a temperature reading at the back of the heatsink is worthless because that metal never touches the tank. Notice in the second picture the temperature that is near the rubber on the pump is only 85.5 F
The tank temperature is 80.5F at the time of this picture.

 

[jnarowe]

On 3/4" tanks you don't use the rubber boot.

 

[bmwaaron]

But you would use the pad right?

 

[jnarowe]

yeah, the pad is what, a 1/16"? Seriously Aaron, do you think you can trouble-shoot this for me? I just had one of the new neoprene pads melt off the pump, and that was when the pump was running at 120F.

The only pump I have ever seen operating at 100% and below 125 was one that had a fan pointed at it.

 

[bmwaaron]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11428972#post11428972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
yeah, the pad is what, a 1/16"? Seriously Aaron, do you think you can trouble-shoot this for me? I just had one of the new neoprene pads melt off the pump, and that was when the pump was running at 120F.

The only pump I have ever seen operating at 100% and below 125 was one that had a fan pointed at it.

How are you taking temperature measurements? Are you using good reliable equipment?

I'm not trying to trouble shoot anything for you! Just pointing out that my experience is completely different. Maybe its the environment that you've created.
Polychloroprene (neoprene) can withstand temperatures up to 125 degrees C (257 F) so I find it strange that it would melt at 120F and I can give you sources from Dow if you don't belive me.
This pad even at 1/16" of an inch thick would disperse most of heat away from the tank. I understand your situation but don't belive that this is the fault of the Manufacture.

Sorry to have upset you with my pictures or experience.

 

[jnarowe]

too bad I threw that pad away. I could barely get it off the pump. And BTW, I don't "know" that iot was neoprene. That is an assumption I made based on how it felt.

As an example, I have on MP-40 running on my grow-out tank because the magnet has lost most of its magnetivity. That one is running at 120.4F (temp. of the heat sink) and 100.4F at the boot/glass interface. The ambient temp. for a cubic foot around the pump is averaging 64F.

So yes, it appears we are having a very different experience doesn't it?

And out of all the Vortechs I have ever seen and tested, I have never seen one running at a heat sink temp. below 125F without a fan on it, whether it was here or at another reefer's place

 

[triggerfish1976]

bmwaaron: How old are your vortech's?

jnarowe: How old are the pumps you have tested?

 

[jnarowe]

Mine vary from the second run MP-40, which is what, about 16 - 18 months, to brand new WWDs. Sorry, my memory for dates isn't so good, but I know my original pumps were the second production run.

 

[triggerfish1976]

Are the new MMD's running 120F? What about the other pumps you tested?

I ask because I have heard that the pumps that have came out since the WWD was released run coolor.

 

[sherm71tank]

I have new pumps and they both run right at 140 fahrenheit at 100% (ambient room temp is usually 70 or below). Jonathans constant bragging about them is why I broke down and purchased them. So glad my tank is glass.

 

[jnarowe]

They are running between 119F and 125F, but only because I have them in pulse mode. Eco-Tech recommended that after I took initial temps. and found that they were still too high.

 

[chris wright]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11423970#post11423970 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
If there were 5 cases or more, I could better understand people's fears. And even that would be just a handful vs. all the pumps out there. So far, it appears to be the only case in two years' time.

Out of all the posts I've read both on RC and our own club's message board, I've not seen people being treated poorly by EcoTech/IceCap's customer service. Post after post, customer service either replied quickly or the person posted that their issue was resolved. Which is what we would expect.

How they deal with <u>this</u> customer - that's what really is being discussed in this thread. It seems several people want EcoTech to buy him a new tank. When Kent's Sea Salt killed off livestock across the nation with the bad batch of salt, they offered replacement salt or some other equipment at the same value. They did not replace lost livestock, nor the money it would cost to replace the livestock.

In the end, I do hope everyone involved in this situation is content. However, the court of public opinion really has no bearing on this situation because as was pointed out, we don't know all the facts and we risk being wrong by assuming we do.

To simplify this, If Eco-tech is at fault, then yes they should replace this tank. A 1000 gallon tank, that's crazed where these units were placed, is the most plausible explanation.

IF the tank is faulty through materials and construction, then no, they shouldn't.

I still don't see how though, that if heat from MH lights can deform an acrylic tank, how these pumps creating a point heat source can not do the same. This tank obviously didn't have this problem until these unit's were used, so If it were my company, I'd be at Jonathons investigating this problem first hand to try to get the problem sorted out.

I feel that as someone has pointed out, that you are not putting yourself in Jonathon's position. I know you do alot for the hobby, but I don't see that defending this company to be to wise at the moment. As Jonathon has pointed out, he has not disclosed all the conversations, and to draw out this long is wrong. This company owes it to themselves to solve this issue quickly and completely so as to avoid threads such as this from arising.

As for Kent's salt, i wouldn't touch it. If the company can't provide good quality control, then it's not worth using.

 

[gkarshens]

Not that my opinion matters much but I will give it anyway. I have to agree with Chris about the Kent situation not being relevant. If I had used their salt and lost livestock because they sent out a faulty product, a new batch of their product is not going to satisfy me. I would be calling them daily until it was replaced. Just because one company has a less than satisfactory "fix" for their mistake doesn't make it ok for others to follow suit. I will never buy Kent after that whole salt fiasco. I am not going to comment on who's fault it is in this situation because I don't know enough about acrylic to be any kind of expert. If I was in Jonathan's position I would be ****ed, but I can also see why Eco-tech is a little hesitant to take blame since this is the only tank that it has happened on (that I know of).

 

[Kent E]

If there are back door hush deals, how do we know this is the only case?