Olasana Lagoon: High Energy SPS Nano Build Thread

Chris, I am very sorry for your tank crash. I have watched your intelligent discussions in reef chat for well over a decade now and have always been very impressed with your talent, knowledge and abilities.

You set forth on an unusual build and we should be here to watch and learn from the knowledge base you have, instead of being bitter and critical because you are working 'outside the box'.

We all make mistakes with our tanks. Even I have crashed a tank from a dumb mistake. It must be nice that some people are so perfect that they can condescend from on high in a 7th grader fashion.

I'm glad to see you admitted to your crash publicly as well. Hopefully some people can look past the juvenile candor an come away with some good information to put to use in their tanks!
 
I disagree on PH. PH is an indicator a byproduct of the mixture of other parameters in my tank. As far as I'm consider that is how I use it when I run my tanks it works well serving that purpose, nothing more nothing less. Again this is where our different perspectives of communication are clearly going to collide, and that's ok. I would never try to control my ph by chemical means I would try to correct the issue that is causing my ph to be off in your case you added kalk slurry which in theory spiked your alk. Had it be me, I would have been testing alk and figuring out the best way to deal with returning that to normal and thanking for ph for giving me a heads up but making no efforts to modify it on it's own.

Except that high pH can kill animals outright while high Alk won't.
An imperfect analogy might be falling in a vat of 115 degree F lye and being more concerned with the temp of the lye than the lye itself. Sure long exposure in the 115 degree fluid will result in burns, but the lye is going to dissolve flesh. The bigger concern is what is going to cause more damage first.
 
The irony is moist, fluffy and delicious. Claiming I told you so on my husbandry without understanding the carbonate system in your own tank. The simplicity and consistency idea is bad if the simplicity doesn't reflect reality.
 
Galleon...Bravo! Great entertaining thread. I also enjoyed your photos extremely. I am a nobody that still struggles to understand reefing completely. I am sometimes surprised my corals look the way they do. Conversely, i wouldnt be surprised if i woke up tomorrow to find all my corals bleached. It happens sometimes, to even the best reefers. I dont profess to know more than any of the posters here, but i do know that I want to increase my chances of success by decreasing the margin for error. It seems you have increased your margin here and I, like John and im sure many other readers want to know, but are afraid to ask..."is there any ''reason'' for this bare type setup... with the supernova?" Are you hoping for a different result by using a light that is not normally used, to show yourself and others that you can get better results (ie. better colour, faster growth?) Im confident that this tank can be successful with your set-up as long as the owner is dedicated and competent which you look to be, but again why? when you might get the result from less wattage, perhaps even a 150mh. I like to tinker, test, measure, move things around in my reef like everyone else, but above all, i hate to worry.

On a side note... your tank and photos actually inspired my little extreme change as well. I now run 2 MP40s and 1 MP60 on a 90 all three at 100% at times... the horror!
 
1) I'm not going to sit here and argue with 2 people at once.
2) I'm glad you are back to belittlement, insults, and misrepresentations of what I've said. As I'm guessing you find it easier then answering questions that may result in loosing face.

Enjoy your tank, I enjoy mine. It seems you choose to push this conversation to a point where we end up degrading this conversation to a ****ing contest resulting in us bantering going back and forth comparing tanks to our husbandry methods. This would be Juvenile in the least. Maybe I have no clue as to why what i'm doing works well, but what I'm doing gets the job done and that's all I care about. I'm just a hobbyist these days and had I wanted to take a career path in marine science, instead of computer science I could have done so. However I'm far to greedy and I very much enjoy programming. So I hope you are feeling pretty good about yourself coming on to an enthusiast forum and swinging around your profession like your member. It must make you feel pretty big thinking you are stumping us peons. I know that's how I feel every time I make fun of somebody for building a web site in word press..er no wait that would be mean.

I think if there is any irony to be had it's when so called experts fumble over the simplistic tasks and most basic husbandry methodology but poo poo all over the rest of us.. You couldn't have just done a water change when you saw your power head (not doser) was putting an abundance of slurry in your tank? Like I said simplicity, and constancy words to live by in reefing.
 
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Wow

Talk about passive/aggressive baiting/trolling and insulting.

Whatever you claim is being done to you MR is both untrue,and of your own making, lol.
 
1) I'm not going to sit here and argue with 2 people at once.

How many times have you said you weren't going to argue with me in this thread??

2) I'm glad you are back to belittlement, insults, and misrepresentations of what I've said. As I'm guessing you find it easier then answering questions that may result in loosing face.

Losing face to who? My long time friends and colleagues? Sorry to tell you, but they are the ones here defending me. You're the one that needs some face saving right now, telling me I'm fumbling simplistic tasks when you don't understand the fundamentals of carbonate chemistry.

I think if there is any irony to be had it's when so called experts fumble over the simplistic tasks and most basic husbandry methodology but poo poo all over the rest of us..

Who is poopooing on who?? Who is so-calling who an expert?

You couldn't have just done a water change when you saw your power head (not doser) was putting an abundance of slurry in your tank? Like I said simplicity, and constancy words to live by in reefing.

Uh, it happened once, when the powerhead fell. If you actually read the blog post you claim you read, you'd know that. I used the same top off method for 4 months before this happened. Also, you say "not doser" as if that's what I should be doing, but the powerhead output is restricted to acceptable flow rates using a ball valve.

And, as soon as I noticed it, I DID do a water change, as I said on the blog and here in this thread. I'm guessing you're just trolling now.

The bottom line is some real actual well known long term successful aquarium experts told you that I actually do know what I'm talking about and your ego won't let you accept it.
 
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"is there any ''reason'' for this bare type setup...
Nothing more remarkable than that it was what I wanted to do!

" Are you hoping for a different result by using a light that is not normally used,

Not normally? You need to review your SPS keeping history!!

to show yourself and others that you can get better results (ie. better colour, faster growth?)

Hell no. This is no competition. I wanted to entertain myself with a small tank that had Acropora in it. Go back to page one and I said that exact same thing!
 
HOLD THE PHONE!!!! This is a noteable event!!!!

Today is one of the few days in my life that I am in complete and total 100% agreement with something that Vitz has said.

Mark my words, the end of the world is surely nigh!

:lol2::lmao:
 
My history began with a 175SE Hamilton pendant 10K ushio many years ago. And forgive me if I seem naive, but this is the first tank that I have seen that rocks a 400W over a 20! And I understand completely... doing it just to do. D@mnit! I like to drive fast too! To each his own. Goodluck!

* Confession... when i first started i thought i could grow brown SPS bought from Aquarium City in the valley using POWER PCs!!!
 
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1) I'm not going to sit here and argue with 2 people at once.

I am not arguing with anyone, I am having a discussion on a reefkeeping message board. Please understand that whatever conversation you are having with anyone else in this thread they are not me, so please keep emotions directed at the appropriate person.

There was a misunderstanding about a tank I keep, so I cleared that up. I have also commented on the problems between high pH and high Alk because I think it is important for anyone reading to understand that focusing on high alk during high pH emergent situation can mean death to animals.

Its all very interesting to me, and by the responses, others as well.
 
I am not arguing with anyone, I am having a discussion on a reefkeeping message board. Please understand that whatever conversation you are having with anyone else in this thread they are not me, so please keep emotions directed at the appropriate person.

There was a misunderstanding about a tank I keep, so I cleared that up. I have also commented on the problems between high pH and high Alk because I think it is important for anyone reading to understand that focusing on high alk during high pH emergent situation can mean death to animals.

Its all very interesting to me, and by the responses, others as well.

I disagree Thales, ignoring ALK and letting that swing around WILL lead to death. PH is a good indicator of your other parameters. You aren't going to have PH threw the roof is something else isn't off, and if you fix the something else your PH will fall back in line. That has always been my experience and has worked out very well for me.

I don't agree that your 500 gallon something system is in away comparable to a 20l with 2 piece of tonga branch. I was simply trying to convey that sentiment. I ran systems of comparable size, both on the small and the big size for MANY years.

But you are right maybe argue wasn't the best choice of words, however it's difficult to have similar but slightly different conversations with 2 people at once when one of those persons is twisting things around, and not having a linear conversation while throwing in underhanded remarks and overt insults in the mix.

Colleague, friend or otherwise the manner which Chris conducts himself both openly on the forum (and privately) in pm. Comes off rude, condescending, and overly defensive. At no point is he open to thoughts, opinions, or suggestions of others. Maybe he is like this in real life, maybe he doesn't translate well online. Either way it's no skin off my back. I would be more then happy to continue on open dialogue on the subject of practical application of PH & Alkalinity in the home aquarium but I would rather not do so with Chris's involvement as I feel he is unable to leave behind his emotions nor is he interested in debate and discussion, only lecture.

I may not know the "fundamentals of carbonate chemistry", but nor do I need to. Let somebody else figure out the algorithm, I'm happy to just play around with the variables. However if I were to feel the need I have no doubt I or any member of this forum could be as well versed as we desired.

Either way my previous offer still stands if ever given the chance.(drinks on me, but I make no promises to not giving him a nickname of something along "the brain" if I do find myself intoxicated) I never take ones conduct behind a computer to be a judge of ones true character.

I do however feel that there is often a large communication gap between "professionals" and hobbyists "experts" in a given field often have a very hard time communicating in a manor that is accessible to the majority of us, and don't quite grasp our desires to enjoy and run our tanks not as some grandiose experiment but as relaxing hobby. This is especially true for those whom are still cutting there teeth. I often find myself doing the same thing when discussing my profession it's a trap we all fall into.

-B
 
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Uh ... you realize that by continually posting and trying to justify you arent arguing you are therefore arguing, right? :hmm5:

... I'm just sayin'

So in a subject change so we can stop beating that dead horse ... :deadhorse:

Where do you plan to go from here Chris?
 
Uh ... you realize that by continually posting and trying to justify you arent arguing you are therefore arguing, right? :hmm5:

... I'm just sayin'

So in a subject change so we can stop beating that dead horse ... :deadhorse:

You realize that by interjecting you are doing the same thing?
 
I'm just pointing out hypocrisy and Jr. Highschool like behavior.

Seriously, if you have nothing useful and non-attacking to offer to someone elses thread, you should go find another thread. This is Chris' thread meant to blog about his tank. Whatever accusations or agenda you have should be taken privately.

In my opinion, your posts really detract from what this thread is about anyway (psst ... it's not about you).
 
I disagree Thales, ignoring ALK and letting that swing around WILL lead to death. PH is a good indicator of your other parameters. You aren't going to have PH threw the roof is something else isn't off, and if you fix the something else your PH will fall back in line. That has always been my experience and has worked out very well for me.

We are, and have been, talking about an emergent situation where the pH has been boosted, by accident, to deadly levels. I am not seeing any other option than to lower the pH immediately or risk the death of animals. We are talking a pH of 9.6 or 10.7 after a bunch of kalk has been dumped in the tank. Of course a bunch of stuff is out of whack, but we know exactly what happend to put it out of whack, and the pH is going to be the thing that will kill animals quickly so you don't have time to wait for it do get back in line by itself while messing with other parameters.
I had fish rolling in the current barely respirating when the pH was 10, as soon as the pH was down to reasonable levels either via vinegar additions of CO2 additions (preferred), the fish snapped back into normal behavior. If I had messed with any other parameter, the fish would have died.

I don't agree that your 500 gallon something system is in away comparable to a 20l with 2 piece of tonga branch.

Why? Methodologically, what is the difference that you see?

I do however feel that there is often a large communication gap between "professionals" and hobbyists "experts" in a given field often have a very hard time communicating in a manor that is accessible to the majority of us, and don't quite grasp our desires to enjoy and run our tanks not as some grandiose experiment but as relaxing hobby. This is especially true for those whom are still cutting there teeth. I often find myself doing the same thing when discussing my profession it's a trap we all fall into.

I haven't really seen much here that isn't accessible to anyone at any level given a bit of leg work. If the level of the discussion isn't to a particular persons liking, move onto a different discussion. This is not a newbie thread, this is a major geek thread in a major geek forum of RC. If this thread isn't what someone is looking for, why not just move on to one that is?
 
Colleague, friend or otherwise the manner which Chris conducts himself both openly on the forum (and privately) in pm. Comes off rude, condescending, and overly defensive. At no point is he open to thoughts, opinions, or suggestions of others. Maybe he is like this in real life, maybe he doesn't translate well online. Either way it's no skin off my back. I would be more then happy to continue on open dialogue on the subject of practical application of PH & Alkalinity in the home aquarium but I would rather not do so with Chris's involvement as I feel he is unable to leave behind his emotions nor is he interested in debate and discussion, only lecture.

I'm sure Thales is laughing his arse off, because he knows me in real life, and he also knows I ask for the thoughts, opinions, and the suggestions of others all the time, to the point of being annoying.

I may not know the "fundamentals of carbonate chemistry", but nor do I need to.

You should probably at least understand the difference between carbonate alkalinity and pH.
 
As an impartial observer Mammoth has some good points.

I asked what caused the ph spike and you ignored it Galleon.
That's rude.

Your water chemistry was off!
I love minimalist high wattage sps tanks and follow several on our forum. My favorite is a Brazilian tank that runs a handful of ceramic rocks and a Bubble King for the main filtration. The Brazilian tank is bare botton with just enough rock to attach sps on. The tanks ph is stable. The reason I subscribed months ago to follow your thread, is because I hadn't seen it done before. Your tank planning and concept is outside of normal. Calling it thinking "out of the box" is being politically correct. To be honest, your thread intrigued me because of it's risk factor, which is a good thing. You know the saying about risks and rewards. If you had more water volume, rock, or fine aragonite it would've had better ph stability.

A 500 gallon tank being compared to a 20l tank is trying to help out your friend:love1:

Why did the spike happen? DID YOU TEST THE MAIN WATER PARAMETERS? Or did you panic and dump vinegar in? Then you did the large water change you should've done after you knew what caused the ph spike.

Heres where I offer some constructive advice. You could get another ph spike if you haven't yet figured out the cause. Please buy an aquarium controller to alert you of ph swings.
 
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