Old photo

[garygb]

Lots of good points and pics in this thread. My understanding, to echo slakker, regarding light output vs. watts is that watt-for-watt MH is more efficient. I read, I believe it was Anthony calfos post on WetWebMedia, where he explained MH gives the most bang for the buck.

Both MM and Dave bring up good points. Also, another consideration that I think is at least some what germane to this topic has to do with the conditions where a given anemone was collected. It is conceivable that one H. magnifica might do well under PCs where another would only do well under MH. If an anemone has been in certain conditions for generations, then it may not respond well to conditions that another would adapt to.

It would be great if aquarists could get a PAR reading for the location a given collected specimen was living, but realistically, watching a new addition to the tank and using one's judgement about what the animal responds best to is about all we have.

 

[kris4647]

Scientific observation requires adding animals to the system and observing what parameters impact health. Many are not prone to this as conclusions are reached too quickly. The attempt must be made though. An aquarist who understands scientific method will make better conclusions that one who reads antidotal observation and participates in group think in a forum.

Umm wow. Referencing your group think comment. What would the scientific community be like without peer review? Reefcentral is our version of such. Plenums DSBs BB Berlin are word of mouth techniques shared in within the community.

WW may I suggest you show us your complete system. From lighting to filtration and inhabitants so we can see the results of your techniques?

 

[elegance coral]

I too am an old timer, and I keep two anemones (LTA's) under florescent lighting. I don't remember the wattage, but there's only one 24" and two 18" bulbs. Very low wattage, but very shallow tank. However, I would never suggest anyone else try this. It is not the best environment for these anemones. On the surface they seem healthy. Strong sting, good expansion, great appetite, and they are growing. To the inexperienced hobbyist these anemones would seem healthy and doing great. Someone with 20+ years of experience should know that there is a better environment for them. These anemones were well established before being placed into this environment. Most newly introduced anemones are teetering between life and death regardless of how they may seem. Placing them into a harsh environment like this would probably cause their death or extended acclimation period at best. It is very poor advice to suggest that anemones do just fine under poor lighting conditions.

Well experienced hobbyist should be able to draw the line between what they can get away with, and what they should suggest others try. Experienced hobbyist know what to look for and when to step in to help an animal out. Others simply don't.

Quote from Mark.
"Don't be discourged from trying these animals with your CF or T5 systems if you have the prerequisite experience with water parameters.
- Mark"

There is sooooooo much more that goes into caring for an anemone than light and water quality. These are just the two big ticket items that the newbie has control over. Knowing what the different postures and behaviors mean is just as important. Along with knowing the requirements of the particular anemone. Unfortunately this only comes with experience. If the lighting or water quality is lacking, the experience becomes much more important. Newbies should do the best they can with what they can control, like lighting.

Just because I keep these anemones under florescent lighting does not mean that a newbie can be sucessful attempting to duplicate this in their system.

 

[davocean]

Elegance, you made at least 2 very good points IMO, one stating your tank is shallow, and the other that over time you do get a feel for what the nems need.
When I had PC's my nems "seemed" healthy, I mean they were huge.
But other exp reefers would say they were high on rocks, not common for the 2 species I keep(sebae H.crispa, and LTA M. doreensis) which are known sand dwellers.
Going by their advice, I upped to a MH/T5 combo, and both immediately went to sandbed.
They actually got a little smaller, which some could confuse for bad health, but soon I realized that they looked alot healthier, better color, more natural, not all stretched out for every bit of light.

 

[davocean]

Here's a perfect example, LTA back when I had PC's, stretching out hard for as much light as it could get, and to most it does look healthy(I'd like to point out another no no while we're here, a WSM mixed w/ 2 occs, and this was about the time I ARGUED W/ EXP REEFERS HOW I WAS BETTER THAN THEM CAUSE I COULD MIX SPECIES,LOL, WRONG!)

Here is same nem, under proper light, in sand where it should be, and much better color.

 

[MM WI]

Most of you confirm my two main points with your posts. Several accounts of long term survival with lighting other than MH and my main main point that elitism is used to discourage new people from entry. I don't dismiss your claims that your anemones improve their health with MH but I am skeptical. Antidotal exchange is peer review, interesting, kris4647, there are so many examples in this string and your response that it would bore me to complete the point and of course there is bit of amusing irony in that statement. Since most of your efforts went into disproving statements that were never even made with interesting antidotal accounts there is not much left here. I will post pics of my new gigantea again in couple of years but of course all this will prove is that my techniques work it will be no more conclusive than antidotal accounts already stated in determine which is healthier for the animal. Determining this is would be much more complicated than collecting a few antidotal arguments. Please don't over read into this again. These accounts are valuable and I have taken things away from some of them, but believe me, they are not conclusive, nature is a bit more complex than this.

- Mark

 

[Slakker]

If you're going to be the caretaker for a creature that has come from the wild reef, the responsible thing to do is to provide the best conditions possible, so that it can not only survive in your care, but truly be in good health.

Just because an anemone can survive under inadequate lighting doesn't mean it should have to, especially when better solutions are readily available.

A fairly recent survey showed that one out of every THIRTY TWO anemones made it to 5 years in captivity. Obviously there are a lot of people out there doing something wrong.

 

[davocean]

Wow, you read into that as confirming your point?
LOL!
We showed/told you the wrong way, and you think that is long term success?
You still CLING to the idea that your theory is helping those asking for advice?
Where you work as a chemist, do they provide respirators?

 

[kris4647]

kris4647, there are so many examples in this string and your response that it would bore me to complete the point and of course there is bit of amusing irony in that statement.

At first in your responses I could kinda follow a cognitive line of thinking albeit one I didn't agree with. Now I can barely understand your point.

I thought my response was rather milder than some of the others. There is always something to glean from someone with years of experience. I liked your picture personally.

I just think you need to step up and show exactly what your set up is, how long its been set up etc. You are saying some things that don't fit with common practice and in doing so you have to substantiate your claims.

And please the word is anecdotal [I'm not being negative I just had to get that off my chest]. You are frequently using that word to describe unsubstantiated claims. On these boards pictures and progress posts substantiate claims.

You may just be someone out to elicit responses, if thats the case gentlemen please don't feed the troll .

 

[MM WI]

And please the word is anecdotal [I'm not being negative I just had to get that off my chest]. You are frequently using that word to describe unsubstantiated claims. On these boards pictures and progress posts substantiate claims.

funny on a couple of levels.

Those that take being disaggreed with a bit too personally also a bit funny,

As to your question I run lots of systems with different configurations. Conclusions are made very carefully if you are really interested I would be glad to share some of these with you but this is not what I am getting. I looked at my posts in this string and I dont think I am talking in code, I presented the animal in the photo because I believe it could not have been much heathier. If this is correct it does support my point. Some of you suggest otherwise, ok, but I think i have the advantage as to an accurate assement of its health, thought this is of course antedotal.

Again I would like to share more if this string takes a turn. My tolerence does have limits though. Some of this is my fault, I should have ignored the noise and addressed the more logical points that have been made as these suggested some careful observation and understanding and some common ground. I do not conceed though that for all anemones that MH is a better choice, for some maybe, and it is certainly not the only choice. Stating in absolute terms that animals kept under t5 or in my unique system are lacking is elitist and unfounded as even if your observations were correct there are other factors and many contradictory observations. If several animals can be maintained in complete health without MH it does prove the point that it is possible, an example of an animal that benefits from the change to MH is intereting but it does not prove anything as there are other variables involved. If you think I am saying something beyond this please read slower.

- Mark

 

[marc price]

....before i develop tourette's syndrome how about the rest of you guys check out this link:

Luxim's newly developed Plasma bulb technology. 140 lumens per watt!!!!

http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13568_22-192842.html

 

[davocean]

What about the bleached out nem next to it?
Was that healthy too?

 

[kris4647]

antedotal

Dear Lord you still spelled it wrong [ ]

WW I look forward to seeing your system provided you think it can substantiate your advice.

I don't think you will and therefore this thread is just arguing no idea exchange.

Cool Link Mark! Damnit LED's are the future remember? Oh wait that didn't work out..............

 

[MM WI]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12862816#post12862816 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marc price
....before i develop tourette's syndrome how about the rest of you guys check out this link:

Luxim's newly developed Plasma bulb technology. 140 lumens per watt!!!!

http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13568_22-192842.html

Hey marc, i have been watching this with great anticipation. I don't think they are available yet though their website makes it sound like they are. Unfortunately I could not find any products to experiment with yet. We could all be singing the same tune soon. - Mark