One Fish, Two Fish, Eat Fish…No Fish

Vinnie1

New member
I ran across this and found it interesting. No more eating seafood for me. I want to help preserve the life in the ocean. Join me.

One Fish, Two Fish, Eat Fish…No Fish
By Sangamithra Iyer


Animal activists and ethical vegetarians often talk about the 10 billion farm animals slaughtered for human consumption each year in the U.S. Yet the majority of our campaigns don’t shed enough light on the roughly 17 billion aquatic creatures Americans eat annually, not to mention the countless others discarded as bycatch.

Last fall a report in Science warned if current fishing trends continue, the world’s fish supply could be depleted by 2048. Mainstream media quickly picked up on this, with blaring headlines about the emptying of our oceans. According to the UN Food and Agriculture Organization, since 1961 fish consumption has more than doubled in the U.S. and increased more than ten-fold in China. This trend however, continues to grow as wild fish become scarcer.

Aquaculture is also on the rise worldwide with the weight of farmed fish exceeding the amount of beef produced globally. But don’t be fooled into believing this doesn’t put pressure on wild populations. Not only are pollution concerns present, but it can require up to five pounds of wild fish to feed one pound of farmed fish!

Despite the impending collapse of our aquatic ecosystems, marine conservation groups, seafood purveyors and guilt-ridden fish eaters are still finding ways to embrace seafood consumption.

Saving Fish by Eating Them
While the efforts and literature promoting sustainable seafood genuinely attempt to address the emptying of our oceans, it seems like some of the biggest proponents simply want to ensure their livelihoods. For example, the Marine Stewardship Council (MSC), which certifies sustainable fisheries, was originally a joint venture between the World Wildlife Fund and Unilever, the world’s largest distributor of seafood.

Even giant retailers are promoting themselves as “ocean-friendly.” Whole Foods Market boasts about their sustainable seafood policies, and stopped carrying the threatened Chilean sea bass in 1999. However, now that MSC has certified a Chilean sea bass fishery, this fragile species is back in its display cases.

Last year Wal-Mart announced its pledge to source in the coming years all its wild-caught fresh and frozen seafood for North America from MSC certified fisheries bearing the “Fish Forever” seal of approval. This commitment, however, does not include farmed salmon or Asian-farmed shrimpâ€"the majority of their seafood sales.

These days, those concerned about fishâ€"yet not enough to stop swallowing themâ€"have a plethora of handy wallet-size cards and pocket guides for “sustainable” or “ocean-friendly” seafood consumption. The Long Island-based conservation group Blue Ocean Institute, the Audubon Society and Monterey Bay Aquarium have produced their own cheat sheets advocating eating the least endangered critters, “harvested” via the least environmentally destructive methods. Some species of farmed fish are also promoted as sustainable.

There is a bizarre logic with “ocean-friendly” seafood, that we can actually save these animals while eating them, and the only reason to save them is so people can continue to eat them. In the Worldwatch Institute paper, Catch of the Day, Brian Halweil concludes, “Being a more deliberate seafood eater doesn’t mean a Spartan existence; in fact, it could be the only guarantee that fresh and healthy fish continues to appear on our tables.”

But leaving seafood off our tables need not be “a Spartan existence” either and perhaps is a better guarantee that healthy fish appearâ€"and simply stayâ€"in our oceans.

Fish Out of Water
Unfortunately, fish are not always seen as beings but rather resources: seafood, fish stocks and filets. But whether wild-caught or farmed, sustainable or not… it is clear that someone with eyes, gills and fins is dead on the plate.

Yet abstaining from eating sea creatures is not often promoted by ocean-friendly campaigns. Rather, these campaigns focus on creating markets for sustainable seafood. To get a better understanding of the sustainable seafood marketplace, we turned to Whole Foods Market. Their website reasons: “Comprehensive boycotts…employed by some groups as an answer to over-fishing unnecessarily alienates the fishing industry and directly destroys fishing operations who are trying to abide by sound management practices. In contrast, the Marine Stewardship Council’s program is based on respect and partnership with the fishing industry to accomplish changeâ€"a concept and practice that Whole Foods Market wholeheartedly endorses.”

In search of this respect and partnership, the Satya staff made a fieldtrip to our local Whole Foods in Manhattan’s Union Square. The bank of display cases, brimming with whole and parts of dead fish, were overwhelming. We stopped at a colorful nutrition and cooking guide, strangely open to a page on orange roughy, a particularly threatened deep dwelling fish, offering nutritional and cooking information. Flipping through, we found pages on the more popular crittersâ€"tuna, shrimp, salmonâ€"side by side with information on how to cook shark and alligator.

Despite Whole Foods’ stated commitment to selling sustainable seafood, there were no signs or messages with environmental or animal concerns in sight. Witnessing the abundance of sea creatures on display, we were bombarded with messages of consumptionâ€"go ahead, eat all you want, whatever species you like. Like the bodies surrounding us, we felt like fish out of water.

Sure, this is a partnershipâ€"between business and the idea that we can keep eating whomever we please forever. As for respect, the truth is, we as a species have rarely treated the planet and the animals we share it with, with respect. And the rapid emptying of our oceans to fill our bellies is testimony to this.
 
Is there ANYTHING "you people" would have us NOT give up? :confused:
Before long we will be surviving on dandelion roots and green tea, commuting via rickshaw, using one square of toilet paper, reading by candlelight and making our own cloths out of hemp! :lol:
 
I don't look at it as giving up something. I have been keeping a reef tank for over 4 years now. The creatures in my tank are my pets. I care for them to the best of my abilities.

This article made me think about seafood differently. I don't eat dogs or cats, why do I eat sea creatures? It wasn't hard for me to decide not to. I haven't given up anything. I just have a different view now. It's a very small thing I can do to promote the health of the oceans that I love. I depend on others to do the "hands on" work.

I did not mean to offend anyone. I just wanted to share my newfound viewpoint.
 
Vinnie, I'm sure you are a good person and I was not offended. I respect your viewpoint but my respect ends when you start asking people to join you. If you want to stop eating sea FOOD because you read an article that is your choice. Try to keep in mind that there are MANY who would think that keeping fish in a glass cage in cruel, so I guess it is all relative. There are societies that do not have the luxury of "feel good" convictions that consider many of our "pets" part of their regular diets.
I'm just curious...Have you given up beef, poultry and pork? What about milk and eggs? I'm just wondering how deep your convictions go?
 
I am an electrician. Do you have any idea how much wire is in your house, or place of business? Do you have any idea how many creatures from the sea are killed every hour just to make up the sheathing on the outside of all those wires?

























































j/k
 
Glad to hear I did not offend.

I may be on the path to avoiding all animal products. I had never really given it much thought before. Now I have started looking into it and am shocked at the environmental impact of eating the "average" diet. I'm going to take it slow so I can learn how to eat without having such a large negative impact. I read that just removing animal products from one meal a day makes a difference. I can easily do that! I will start there. I already don't eat beef very often, so that won't be difficult either.

Thanks for making me think about it more.

I am interested in the wire covering information. I thought they were made of plastic.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10091388#post10091388 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
Is there ANYTHING "you people" would have us NOT give up? :confused:
Before long we will be surviving on dandelion roots and green tea, commuting via rickshaw, using one square of toilet paper, reading by candlelight and making our own cloths out of hemp! :lol:
Why do you generalize so much? "You people"? Come on man.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10098674#post10098674 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
Vinnie, I'm sure you are a good person and I was not offended. I respect your viewpoint but my respect ends when you start asking people to join you. If you want to stop eating sea FOOD because you read an article that is your choice. Try to keep in mind that there are MANY who would think that keeping fish in a glass cage in cruel, so I guess it is all relative. There are societies that do not have the luxury of "feel good" convictions that consider many of our "pets" part of their regular diets.
I'm just curious...Have you given up beef, poultry and pork? What about milk and eggs? I'm just wondering how deep your convictions go?
What's wrong with asking people to join? That's how every movement starts. And anything can be FOOD, I don't eat insects but most people do. Is that another "feel good conviction"? What's the point of living in a society like ours if we can't have silly luxuries like caring about the planet? I think SUV's are sillier luxuries than that, but you LOVE those luxuries.

Anyway, I think it's a great idea Vinnie. Keep caring.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10109494#post10109494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Vinnie1
I am interested in the wire covering information. I thought they were made of plastic.

You've got to look at the very bottom of his post, after all the blank space. He was joking ;)

BTW some fisheries are considered to be in good health and at sustainable levels. Most notably the Pacific North West such as pollock. Though this is in stark contrast to the collapsed stocks in the Atlantic such as cod.

Is going vegetarian and giving up all meat products a good idea? Vegetable farming relies heavily on fossil fuels, fertilizers and herbicides. Those all have problems of their own.

No matter what we do or eat, we will have an impact. However, it is good to be as responsible as possible to reduce that impact. Controlling runoff will mitigate pollution in our waters, getting politics out of determining allowable yields for fisheries are just a few things that would help.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10109494#post10109494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Vinnie1
Now I have started looking into it and am shocked at the environmental impact of eating the "average" diet. I'm going to take it slow so I can learn how to eat without having such a large negative impact. I read that just removing animal products from one meal a day makes a difference.

You may be onto something there. The cattle industry do to it's transport needs is among the largest co2 emitters. If you are one that believes these emissions contribute to global warming then you have a personal reason for your decision. I am lucky that I am able to buy all of my meat from local growers. I do this for health and self sufficiency reasons as I have not bought into the "we are destroying the planet" religion.
I actually have been told by some that the extensive environmentally sound habits that I have do not count because I have not gotten my mind right. :confused:


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10109494#post10109494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Vinnie1

Thanks for making me think about it more.


Whatever you do, do it for yourself. I think a lot of these "movements" are designed for many reasons other than what their purported reasons are.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10109494#post10109494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Vinnie1

I am interested in the wire covering information. I thought they were made of plastic.

Me too. Maybe we will both learn something. :lol:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10109915#post10109915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
You've got to look at the very bottom of his post, after all the blank space. He was joking ;)


I did not notice that. Dumb joke anyway.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10109915#post10109915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
getting politics out of determining allowable yields for fisheries are just a few things that would help.

Be careful with the political stuff. It could get you in trouble with a moderator. :lol:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10109915#post10109915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Is going vegetarian and giving up all meat products a good idea? Vegetable farming relies heavily on fossil fuels, fertilizers and herbicides. Those all have problems of their own.
I would say yes, considering that cattle, chickens, etc, all eat plants that are grown in the same way as our plant foodstuffs.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10109981#post10109981 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
Be careful with the political stuff. It could get you in trouble with a moderator. :lol:

I'll have to go ban myself :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10109918#post10109918 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
I actually have been told by some that the extensive environmentally sound habits that I have do not count because I have not gotten my mind right. :confused:
I don't care why you do those things, and I'm glad that you do do those things, I just don't understand why you try to prevent others from doing things because they feel it's the "right" thing to do.
 
and to encourage more debate, just think about "bio-fuels" like using corn instead of oil...the amount of agricultural products needed to fuel vehicles is so great, it will suck the life right out of our planet. Just the landmass and water alone is staggering, and this disturbing trend is just more proof of how stupid we really are. We have to get beyond internal combustion if we are going to make any prgress at all. Even using electricity soaks up natural resources at a staggering rate.
 
I would say yes, considering that cattle, chickens, etc, all eat plants that are grown in the same way as our plant foodstuffs.
Plus, guess who the number one consumer of fishmeal is.... Yep, it's terrestrial agriculture, not aquaculture, even factoring in the outdated and probably never accurate 5:1 feed conversion ratio.
 
Re: One Fish, Two Fish, Eat Fish…No Fish

but it can require up to five pounds of wild fish to feed one pound of farmed fish!

Just curious, how many pounds of wild fish does it take to feed one pound of wild fish?
 
Most estimates are somewhere in the neighborhood of 8-10 lbs. That's roughly the same amount of food terrestrial farm animals take to put on a lb too.

Also, just FWIW, few commercially viable fish farms get a feed conversion ratio of more than 3:1 (even accounting for wasted food), and many are pretty close to 1:1, meaning it only takes 1-3 lbs of food to put on 1 lb of weight. Since the fishmeal in the food is used as the protein source and even high protein food is only 40% or less protein source, to be using 5 lbs of fish per lb of growth you would have to have a FCR of about 13:1 (worse than in nature). Many feeds use soy as the protein source now anyway rather than fishmeal so it takes little or no wild fish for a farmed fish to put on a lb. Even factoring in bycatch (which is low for menhaden, the fish usually used for fishmeal) it's hard to come up with a number like 5 lbs of fish per 1 lb of growth.
 
ok....I'm all for saving the ocean...and rainforest...and the whole darn world.

but there is a point...

tell your lionfish he can no longer have meat...greens from now on
try that with the dog and cat....

whole world is set up on a eco system which means one thing eats another to be eaten....to die to be eaten
b/c of some of the collection means humans have there needs to be limits

and a lot of the smaller breeds of dogs ... are food in other countries
 
Well, good luck with your vegetarian diet. I've read that you'll have to eat at least 23 different vegetables a week to get even close to the varieties you get out of 3 different types of meat (poultry, beef, fish). Remember, protiens are some of the most complex molecules known to man and there are countless numbers of variations. Now what is more effeicient, 23 different vegetables being shipped from around the world (and lots of them) or a few oz. of beef from texas, a chicken from just about anywhere, and a piece of salmon from wherever salmon are collected from? Besides I have trouble believing CO2 is the worse thing we let in the air. Things have been making CO2 for billions of years. IMO man made compounds are much more dangerous. ChloroFlouroCarbons anybody?

BTW corn oils are extremely wasteful. The real planet saving goodness is in sugar beets. They make about 10X the amount of oil corn makes per acre and can be grown bout anywhere. Remember its all sugar, and more sugar in sugar beets :D

Dan
 
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