One of my clownfish just keeps dying!

[ai4ns]

Hey There,
I've been doing a lot of research on this topic but I just couldn't find the information that may help.

So the situation that is happening:
In my 120 Gal tank but something really odd is happening - one of my clowns ALWAYS dies (and the same one lives) and I just can't figure out why would this be happening? From what I see clowns have gotten on well as they always swim & hide together and the other tank members seem to be quite happy with their presence.

I have double checked the water and everything seems to be where it should be. I'm hoping someone can help me as currently the clown is dying and just breathing really heavy and struggling to get off the bottom of the tank. From what I can see neither of the clowns have any visible illnesses - there is a little brown tinge to their tail areas but I've seen it on a few in multiple LFS so I'm assuming that's normal.

Currently I have 2 clownies & 2 tangs (blue & unicorn) in a BB tank with a few snails & hermits. The tangs and the one clown that doesn't keep dying are completely healthy and are active swimmers.

If anyone could help me on this I will be very grateful!

Temp: 27 c
Phosphate: ~0-0.1
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Calcium: 430
Salinity: 1.024

 

[mbemount]

How big is the clownfish that keeps surviving? My guess is it's a female and it's not taking to the other clownfish you're putting in the tank with it. Could be that you're adding a second female with it? You're going to need to put in a smaller one and hope they pair up (new one must not have turned female!).

 

[Dkuhlmann]

What do you mean by the same one keeps dying? I'm pretty sure they can only die once. Do you mean the replacement clown is dying?

From your description it sounds like there is low oxygen in your tank. What do you have for a tank and equipment to run it?

 

[garygb]

Keeps dying? nine lives like a cat?

 

[ai4ns]

Haha sorry - Terrible explanation! The replacement fish keeps dying

So far the survivor clown has always been the smaller fish - I'm not too sure on how accepting each other works but they did that tail shake thing at first and then settled together in the same area and I never saw any fighting or chasing.. Would this be part of the issue if they didn't?

This might of been a big no-no but when I asked the LFS whether I need a separate oxygen supply they said the skimmer should be sufficient? Is this wrong? Should I add a separate oxygen supply? The tank is located in an enclosed garage but I generally keep the garage door open during the day.

Currently the equipment I have is:
12mm 1200x550x600 glass tank with sump
- Reef Octopus Classic 500L OTP Skimmer
- Reef Octopus Reactor (Carbon)
- 2x Vortech M40 pumps
- Jabeo Auto Doser
- GHL Profilux Controller
- Shogun 500w heater

Thanks for your help!

 

[hotelbravo]

your sump should be supplying your tank with enough oxygen i do not think thats the issue

 

[ThRoewer]

...
From your description it sounds like there is low oxygen in your tank. What do you have for a tank and equipment to run it?

What in his description makes it sound like there is a low oxygen problem?

Heavy breathing is usually not a sign of low oxygen but rather of an infection of the gills.

Low oxygen kills the largest and most active fish first so before a clown dies of it the tangs would be gone. Also, if it was low oxygen the fish would be hanging on the water surface, standing in front of the pump outflow or be trying to get out there (=jump).
I haven't even had symptoms of low oxygen with 9 sizable fish in a 10 gallon QT during a blackout from 2pm to 5:30pm and high temperatures.

This sounds more like the tank is infected with something (brook, velvet, uronema,...) and all old fish have developed enough immunity to not be bothered by it. But while not affected by this they may still be carriers and every newly added fish gets infected and dies.

It would also help to know which clownfish species we are dealing with, ocellaris, percula, clarkii,...

And what is that brown thingy on the tail? That sounds a bit fishy to me.

A picture of the sick fish would help (please with white lights on full and sharp).

 

[ai4ns]

This sounds more like the tank is infected with something (brook, velvet, uronema,...) and all old fish have developed enough immunity to not be bothered by it. But while not affected by this they may still be carriers and every newly added fish gets infected and dies.

Hmm I see... from what I can see, none of the fish have visible illnesses (including the sick clown). If it is infected, what would be the best way to clean the tank? 100% water change orr??

It would also help to know which clownfish species we are dealing with, ocellaris, percula, clarkii,...

I believe they are ocellaris clowns.

And what is that brown thingy on the tail? That sounds a bit fishy to me. A picture of the sick fish would help (please with white lights on full and sharp).

As i said before, I'm not too sure if it is very common but it looks like this: http://goo.gl/PbVyvq (not my fish but has the same browning colour just only around the fins)

A picture of the sick fish would help (please with white lights on full and sharp).

I will send a photo when I get home but after seeing the condition of the clown this morning struggling to even get off the floor, my fears is that it will not be alive

 

[Dkuhlmann]

It had been a long day and I shouldn't post when so tired

I saw gasping and oxygen hit me. I stand corrected thanks guy's. Yes your skimmer provides plenty of oxygen to your water. Again my apologies.

I agree there is some disease that is killing the new comer but wouldn't brook, velvet or uronema all show physical signs as in their appearance?

I'm starting to think it's salinity shock from a very low lfs to this tank. Ok so that's what hit me this early in the day

What is your acclimation process?

 

[ai4ns]

Unfortunately as I suspected, the clown sadly died and got stuck around the drain pipe in the weir I took a photo of the poor lil guy.. I am not sure whether this helps identify any problems..
http://i.imgur.com/8wddBUD.jpg

I suppose it could be something like salinity shock but what I did for acclimation was sit the bag in the water for 15mins and then added 100ml of tank water into the bag every 15 mins until it was nearly full - then i scooped the fish out and put it in the tank. If it helps I also bought my unicorn tang from the same shop on the same day.

 

[ThRoewer]

Hmm I see... from what I can see, none of the fish have visible illnesses (including the sick clown). If it is infected, what would be the best way to clean the tank? 100% water change orr??

In general water change won't do too much .to eradicate an infection. To eradicate it ,if it is a disease, you need at first identify what it could be.

I believe they are ocellaris clowns.

As i said before, I'm not too sure if it is very common but it looks like this: http://goo.gl/PbVyvq (not my fish but has the same browning colour just only around the fins)

That picture shows an ocellaris and those slightly darker colorations are nothing to worry about.

...
I agree there is some disease that is killing the new comer but wouldn't brook, velvet or uronema all show physical signs as in their appearance?

I have seen fish being completely unaffected while others left and right died of brook, ich and velvet. Those survivors were obviously immune (at least enough to not get sick).

There is a difference of being infected and being sick. It's like with for example HIV infections in humans - not everybody who is infected with HIV is actually sick (=has AIDS). But those infected can still infect others.

You have comparable mechanisms with fish diseases.

...I'm starting to think it's salinity shock from a very low lfs to this tank. Ok so that's what hit me this early in the day
...

Salinity shock would kill a fish right away, though most fish are quite tolerant to vast salinity swings both ways. Only really weakened or very sensitive fish will be seriously affected.

 

[ai4ns]

For some reason this didn't post..

Unfortunately as I suspected, the clown sadly died and got stuck around the drain pipe in the weir I took a photo of the poor lil guy.. I am not sure whether this helps identify any problems.. http://i.imgur.com/8wddBUD.jpg

I suppose it could be something like salinity shock as I'm assuming that the smaller the fish, the harder it hits.. but what I did for acclimation was sit the bag in the water for 15mins and then added 100ml of tank water into the bag every 15 mins until it was nearly full - then i scooped the fish out and put it in the tank. If it helps I also bought my unicorn tang from the same shop on the same day.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

For some reason this didn't post..



I suppose it could be something like salinity shock as I'm assuming that the smaller the fish, the harder it hits.. but what I did for acclimation was sit the bag in the water for 15mins and then added 100ml of tank water into the bag every 15 mins until it was nearly full - then i scooped the fish out and put it in the tank. If it helps I also bought my unicorn tang from the same shop on the same day.

But do you know what the salinity of the water from where you bought it was?

 

[ai4ns]

But do you know what the salinity of the water from where you bought it was?

I might need to find that out next time.. but yer no idea but they did have coral with the same water where the fish were taken from - so it could 0.01~ 0.005 swing be that dangerous even after nearly an hour of acclimation?

 

[Duke4life]

How long ago did you add the lil guy & tang? How long has your tank been setup?

 

[ai4ns]

I added them on Thursday last week and both were completely fine swimming pretty actively but then yeh it just started to die - exactly the same situation with the first one that died. Something I forgot to mention which might be important is that all the clowns came from the same LFS.

The tank has been setup since around mid March? From what I understood from all the tests I did, everything was cycled.

 

[Amoo]

I'm going to report this post and see if we can get a mod to move it over to the disease section ai4ns. I can't tell from the photo, but the gill area looks inflamed to me in that picture which would coincide with your description. I think you are looking at a more general disease style problem then a more specified clown problem.

 

[imjedi76]

Go buy a cheap 10g kit with filter, hood and get a heater and a couple of PVC fittings.. get a small air pump and air line..don't need to get air stone.. add water from your dt and qt the next clown in there

If your new clown starts showing symptoms medicate with prazipro.. qt for approximately 8 weeks

 

[ThRoewer]

Go buy a cheap 10g kit with filter, hood and get a heater and a couple of PVC fittings.. get a small air pump and air line..don't need to get air stone.. add water from your dt and qt the next clown in there
...

While I agree on the 10g QT I would rather get a hang on filter (small powerhead is fine too) and an air operated skimmer like the Red Sea Berlin Air Lift Protein Skimmer. While the skimmer has likely to be turned off during the actual treatment it will be of great benefit for the much longer observation phase.
Ignore the water level mark on this skimmer and get a way larger air pump than recommended - then it work like a champ.

Also with clownfish I would rather use cheap red ceramic flowerpots instead of PVC fittings - clowns seem to see these flowerpots as some form of anemone but don't feel very comfortable with PVC fittings.

Since the suspicion is that the main tank is infected I wouldn't take water from it but rather set up the QT with fresh saltwater. Also, don't use any bottled bacterial starters

...
If your new clown starts showing symptoms medicate with prazipro.. qt for approximately 8 weeks

PraziPro as it is only effective against external and internal trematodes (flukes) but doesn't do anything against the protozoan skin and gill parasites (Amyloodinium, Brooklynella, Uronema, Trichodina, and the like) that are the most likely cause of this quick die-off.

 

[OrionN]

How hot dues it get there during the summer day. Here in South Texas, if I leave my tank out in the garage, even open, I would have fish soup by the end of the day.