Opinions and advice needed......

[newbie2014]

......my corals are dead/dying.

Hi. I just started a saltwater tank about 3 months ago. It's a 40 gallon breeder. It has about 30 lbs of live rock and 30 lbs of live sand. It's equipped with an aquamaxx skimmer, 110 aquaclear power filter (with just sponge), and 3 koralia powerhead ( one 425 and two 240's) for flow. I use a marsaqua 300W LED (hung 11-12 inches above the tank) that stays on for 9hrs a day at 50%blue and 25% white intensity. I only use RO/DI water (0ppm), and Instant Ocean and/or Reef Crystal salt.

According to API test results, the tank was cycled in about a month. I, then, added a pair of clown fish. A week later, I added a bangaii cardinal. A week after, I added some two small zoas frags and a leather frag to the tank. Those coral didn't even open, and they started melted away the next few days.

All that time, my water parameters were 0/0/0-5 for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and the fish are fine and healthy. My salinity is 1.024-1.026 and temperature is 77-78. Two weeks later, I was offered a great deal on some mushroom, 3 small toadstools and a kenya tree, so I brought them home. These corals opened for 2-3 days, then closed up and started melted away again. And the water parameters stay the same. I change 10-20% water every other week.

About a week ago I added a royal gramma and 2-3 patches/frags of GSP. The GSP patches have not opened yet. All fish are doing great.

So, my question to you experts is what could be wrong/off in my tank? I know I haven't tested for Ca and Alk, but their level shouldn't be that bad to cause such a melt down. And all the corals that I got are supposed to be very hardy.

Thanks a bunch

 

[matt880305]

whats the ph. also could be that your water is to "clean" for some of these corals. alot of the softies (zoas ,leathers, and lps) dont like very "clean" water, they like alittle nitrate and phosphate in the water, but really i dont think that is the prob.

 

[newbie2014]

whats the ph. also could be that your water is to "clean" for some of these corals. alot of the softies (zoas ,leathers, and lps) dont like very "clean" water, they like alittle nitrate and phosphate in the water, but really i dont think that is the prob.

Thanks for replying.

The pH is 8.0. A little low, I think. I heard other reefers say the same like you did. So, I've been feeding twice a day (frozen bloodworm, brine shrimp and Ocean Nutrition Formula 1 pellets). There's always a little food left over after each feeding, but the skimmer pulls out dark greenish brown skimmate.

I just wanna grow some softies so that my tank doesn't look so bare.

 

[Pet Detective]

In my 25+ years experience in reef keeping, I have found that in general, a brand new tank requires at least 6 months of "breaking in", for example, water parameter fluctuations, algae & Cyano outbreaks, developing a regular maintenance schedule etc. etc. establishing a few fish & a clean up crew is a good start. Once you become comfortable with maintaining the tank without major issues, then a few starter corals should be introduced, if I were to venture a guess to your current problem....by your description, ie "melting away", it sounds like ammonia or nitrites to me. I suggest slowing down a bit & enjoy the process. Good Luck to you.

 

[GertrudeRollins]

I am new to aquatic species and have an experience of only 6 months. I do take good care of the setup and feel the reef keeping is bit tough and critical. Three months ago I got one from http://www.aquaristiconline.com.au/ and have kept it simple till now.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I wish I had an answer for you, but it's not easy.

Your tank is only 16" deep and the corals you are trying to start with don't need a lot of light. The MarsAqua 300 over a tank that is only 16" deep means you could be running the power levels too high. 50% and 25% sound more like there you should snd up with stony corals after 6 to 12 months. That big fixture over a 16" deep tank... I'd recommend you start them at 15 to 20 white and 30 to 40 blue and see what happens. My tank is 24" deep, full of sps and lps, has been running for 5+ years and my 3 year old leds are a lot like yours. I run them at 90% blue and 40% white for just 3 hours a day with a 5 hour sunrise and a 6 hour sunset. This is just a guess on my part, but it's worth a shot.

What are you using for water in your tank? RO/DI? And the water came from, the city? A well? a store (distilled)? An LFS (fresh or salt)?

I'd consider a Poly Filter and see if that offers up any heavy metals or other contaminates.

 

[matt880305]

i would also agree with Pet Detective and ron. since api is kinda a cheapo test kit and not always the most reliable try asking your lfs to test your water see if you still have traces of ammonia or nitrite also the should be able to test calc and alk for you. as far as light agreed on tuning them down alittle

 

[newbie2014]

In my 25+ years experience in reef keeping, I have found that in general, a brand new tank requires at least 6 months of "breaking in", for example, water parameter fluctuations, algae & Cyano outbreaks, developing a regular maintenance schedule etc. etc. establishing a few fish & a clean up crew is a good start. Once you become comfortable with maintaining the tank without major issues, then a few starter corals should be introduced, if I were to venture a guess to your current problem....by your description, ie "melting away", it sounds like ammonia or nitrites to me. I suggest slowing down a bit & enjoy the process. Good Luck to you.

Really appreciate your response. I'm at lost here, so any idea would help.

Yes, I've heard that "6 months" comment from other reefers too.There are also opinions that say as long as your parameters are good, you're good to go.

So, my question would be; what's the difference between a young (<6months) tank vs an old (>6months) tank, considering the maintenance/upkeep and parameters are the same? Are there something different in the water between them that we can't see or check for?

Thanks again

 

[sde1500]

Really appreciate your response. I'm at lost here, so any idea would help.

Yes, I've heard that "6 months" comment from other reefers too.There are also opinions that say as long as your parameters are good, you're good to go.

So, my question would be; what's the difference between a young (<6months) tank vs an old (>6months) tank, considering the maintenance/upkeep and parameters are the same? Are there something different in the water between them that we can't see or check for?

Thanks again

Balance. As a newbie you don't have a routine down yet. The tank just started, parameters are still not entirely balanced, and you have yet to really get in the swing of managing a tank. It isn't a ton of work, but getting a routine down, and letting the tank gain a balance, helps a ton.

 

[newbie2014]

I wish I had an answer for you, but it's not easy.

Your tank is only 16" deep and the corals you are trying to start with don't need a lot of light. The MarsAqua 300 over a tank that is only 16" deep means you could be running the power levels too high. 50% and 25% sound more like there you should snd up with stony corals after 6 to 12 months. That big fixture over a 16" deep tank... I'd recommend you start them at 15 to 20 white and 30 to 40 blue and see what happens. My tank is 24" deep, full of sps and lps, has been running for 5+ years and my 3 year old leds are a lot like yours. I run them at 90% blue and 40% white for just 3 hours a day with a 5 hour sunrise and a 6 hour sunset. This is just a guess on my part, but it's worth a shot.

What are you using for water in your tank? RO/DI? And the water came from, the city? A well? a store (distilled)? An LFS (fresh or salt)?

I'd consider a Poly Filter and see if that offers up any heavy metals or other contaminates.

Thank you for responding.

You're right. The light is quite strong for my tank. The distance from light to top of substrate is only 23-24 inches. I wish I have a meter to check and adjust the PAR/PUR value accordingly. I started off at minimum intensity and worked up to where they are now. I don't intend on increasing it. I'll use your suggestion and see how that will go. It would also nice if I can figure out how to ramp the light up and down.

I use RO/DI water from work (laboratory), 0ppm.

I never heard of Poly Filter. I assume it has carbon to filter out contaminants?

 

[newbie2014]

i would also agree with Pet Detective and ron. since api is kinda a cheapo test kit and not always the most reliable try asking your lfs to test your water see if you still have traces of ammonia or nitrite also the should be able to test calc and alk for you. as far as light agreed on tuning them down alittle

Thank you. All these comments are very helpful.

That's another venue I can pursue; having my water checked at LFS. And time is everything.

 

[A1t2o]

You may want to add more live rock to your tank. 1-2 pounds per gallon is recommended for reef tanks. It could be causing small spikes of ammonia and nitrites in your tank before the bacteria can take care of it. It is another reason why people say the 6 month rule. If your bacteria colonies are not well established then the variations could harm corals.

Determining the right lighting levels is very difficult with LEDs, you are basically eyeballing it unless you have a PAR meter. Start at 10% then slowly raise the levels to acclimate the corals and go back if they start looking like they are getting too much light.

 

[Psychomantix]

I don't think any of the responses given so far are great. Waiting 6 months to add an easy softie like toadstool or zoa seems a bit much. Ammonia-nitrite-nitrate tested fine and fish are doing fine and I don't believe the API kit is that inaccurate. Softies, which are pretty much all the corals that you've tried so far, are not really reliant on Calcium or supplemental feedings so clean water and low Ca are probably not the cause. Lighting is a possibility, but zoas do like light, and they still shouldn't melt away that quickly. The only thing I can really think of that would cause your corals to die in a few DAYS is toxins. Either toxins in your water supply or your leather corals are engaged in chemical warfare and killing everything else as well. Again this is just my best guess as this case is quite unusual. Maybe someone else with more experience can offer better advice.

edit: Oops forgot the advice part. My advice is to run carbon for a few days to clear out potential toxins.

 

[Pet Detective]

I don't think any of the responses given so far are great. Waiting 6 months to add an easy softie like toadstool or zoa seems a bit much. Ammonia-nitrite-nitrate tested fine and fish are doing fine and I don't believe the API kit is that inaccurate. Softies, which are pretty much all the corals that you've tried so far, are not really reliant on Calcium or supplemental feedings so clean water and low Ca are probably not the cause. Lighting is a possibility, but zoas do like light, and they still shouldn't melt away that quickly. The only thing I can really think of that would cause your corals to die in a few DAYS is toxins. Either toxins in your water supply or your leather corals are engaged in chemical warfare and killing everything else as well. Again this is just my best guess as this case is quite unusual. Maybe someone else with more experience can offer better advice.

Well maybe some of us have gone through this experience a time or 2 or 3 & that's why the advice was given to slow down, I'm not a chemist or marine biologist, just someone who has been reef keeping since the early 90's, so all I can do is offer advice based on EXPERIENCE, perhaps you should try that as well.

 

[Psychomantix]

Well maybe some of us have gone through this experience a time or 2 or 3 & that's why the advice was given to slow down, I'm not a chemist or marine biologist, just someone who has been reef keeping since the early 90's, so all I can do is offer advice based on EXPERIENCE, perhaps you should try that as well.

The advice that I offered is based on logical deduction to a potential source to the OP's problems based on information given. What will not harm fish, but will quickly kill a variety of easy-to-grow corals so rapidly.

to OP: Do you dip your corals before adding to the tank? You may have accidentally introduced a pest that just target corals to your tank as well. That would also explain why only your corals are dying off so quickly but fish are fine and parameters are normal.

 

[Pet Detective]

The advice that I offered is based on logical deduction to a potential source to the OP's problems based on information given. What will not harm fish, but will quickly kill a variety of easy-to-grow corals so rapidly.

to OP: Do you dip your corals before adding to the tank? You may have accidentally introduced a pest that just target corals to your tank as well. That would also explain why only your corals are dying off so quickly but fish are fine and parameters are normal.

First off, it is nearly impossible to accurately diagnose problems in a tank that you don't see & care for every day, all we can do is offer suggestions...try this, try that, do this, don't do that, based on prior experiences, the fact that you feel any corals are EASY to grow, suggests to me that you haven't had much trial & error in keeping a reef. Sure, some corals require less exacting standards, but keeping a living, breathing, reef in tact is far from easy, it requires TIME & patience, something the iphone generation isn't used to, I get it, sometimes there are no right or wrong answers, just experiences, good & bad, but I have had great success in this hobby & I learned first hand that time, patience & trial & error as well as a working knowledge of the scientific portion of the hobby is tantamount to success. There is no EASY approach to this, there is tons more information available to reefers now then when I started, that is the benefit of trial & error & advancements in the hobby, but it should not be looked upon as easy, because it is not, it is a "labor of love" & if approached that way will provide years & years of satisfaction, pride & pleasure.

 

[Saltine]

From the information you have given my personal opinion is your lighting was too strong. I would lower it to 20% next time you add a coral and slowly ramp back up and see if you have better luck.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I agree with the others so I'm not going to repeat it. What I will say is that I've got the same lights over my 40b and I run the blues at 100% and the whites at 50%. I'm at a loss for what's killing them so quickly especially some of the easy and usually forgiving corals you've started with. Also I don't think your flow is too low as I'm only running one 800gph powerhead plus my return which is about 500 ish gph.

 

[A1t2o]

I don't think any of the responses given so far are great. Waiting 6 months to add an easy softie like toadstool or zoa seems a bit much. Ammonia-nitrite-nitrate tested fine and fish are doing fine and I don't believe the API kit is that inaccurate. Softies, which are pretty much all the corals that you've tried so far, are not really reliant on Calcium or supplemental feedings so clean water and low Ca are probably not the cause. Lighting is a possibility, but zoas do like light, and they still shouldn't melt away that quickly. The only thing I can really think of that would cause your corals to die in a few DAYS is toxins. Either toxins in your water supply or your leather corals are engaged in chemical warfare and killing everything else as well. Again this is just my best guess as this case is quite unusual. Maybe someone else with more experience can offer better advice.

edit: Oops forgot the advice part. My advice is to run carbon for a few days to clear out potential toxins.

With 10 posts, you bashing other people's posts just makes you look like a know-it-all noob that is acting cocky. Your understanding of reef chemistry doesn't help you either. Stressed softies can certainly melt under too powerful lighting in a couple days. So please don't get in the way of experienced reefers trying to help diagnose the problem.

Chemical warfare is certainly a possibility but unless the corals were placed very close together, it is unlikely. You may want to check your alkalinity, since that can cause PH swings if it is too low. Also I noticed you said you have 3 PH amounting to about 900GPH in a 40 gallon tank. That's almost 25X turnover. That's a little high for a softies tank unless your corals are in a sheltered spot. So, I'm thinking that you are seeing a combination of issues that resulted in the corals dying so quickly. This is why we recommend taking it a bit slower, so you have time to find these issues and solve them before wasting money on corals that die in a week or a month.

 

[newbie2014]

Balance. As a newbie you don't have a routine down yet. The tank just started, parameters are still not entirely balanced, and you have yet to really get in the swing of managing a tank. It isn't a ton of work, but getting a routine down, and letting the tank gain a balance, helps a ton.

Understood. The maintenance/upkeep chores that I do are to maintain the parameters. And I thought things were good enough to add fish and corals. Perhaps, it's because I don't have established ecosystem? But every ecosystem has to start from something......

Thank you for your input.