Opinions and advice needed......

[Sk8r]

Some toadstools are toxic upon demise, so I hear, particularly the yellow one. Run carbon while having softies: they do chemical warfare and can make problems. You can add coral before you add fish, for that matter, but in general, they CAN get into a snit and conduct warfare.
There are also a lot of environmental causes---householder decides to spray room freshener, etc. You SHOULD have been ok, but that leaves externally arriving poison, death of a toxic specimen, inadequate lights, too much light, or a fish or invert with a taste for corals. THere's also allelopathy, meaning two corals that hate each other and happen to get too close.

 

[newbie2014]

You may want to add more live rock to your tank. 1-2 pounds per gallon is recommended for reef tanks. It could be causing small spikes of ammonia and nitrites in your tank before the bacteria can take care of it. It is another reason why people say the 6 month rule. If your bacteria colonies are not well established then the variations could harm corals.

Determining the right lighting levels is very difficult with LEDs, you are basically eyeballing it unless you have a PAR meter. Start at 10% then slowly raise the levels to acclimate the corals and go back if they start looking like they are getting too much light.

It's true that I don't have enough live rocks, according to the widely adopted formula 1-2lbs/gallon. I want to grow as many as ecologically possible and still have open space for fish to swim. There are other theories (from reefers/biologists) that say more rocks doesn't necessary equate to more bacteria colonies/numbers. Perhaps there is a fine line between enough rocks and just obscenely crowding out the tank for no additional benefits. But I'm with you.

Yeah, I started out the LED with the minimum intensity and dialed it up slowly to where it is now.

Thank you

 

[drillsar]

In my experience tells me that for one you don't have enough bacteria in your tank, plankton. Tanks really need to mature at least 6 months before adding corals. First corals would be like mushrooms or zoos and see how they do. I am thinking you don't have enough rocks.. You can always add rock to a sump instead of display tank

 

[newbie2014]

I don't think any of the responses given so far are great. Waiting 6 months to add an easy softie like toadstool or zoa seems a bit much. Ammonia-nitrite-nitrate tested fine and fish are doing fine and I don't believe the API kit is that inaccurate. Softies, which are pretty much all the corals that you've tried so far, are not really reliant on Calcium or supplemental feedings so clean water and low Ca are probably not the cause. Lighting is a possibility, but zoas do like light, and they still shouldn't melt away that quickly. The only thing I can really think of that would cause your corals to die in a few DAYS is toxins. Either toxins in your water supply or your leather corals are engaged in chemical warfare and killing everything else as well. Again this is just my best guess as this case is quite unusual. Maybe someone else with more experience can offer better advice.

edit: Oops forgot the advice part. My advice is to run carbon for a few days to clear out potential toxins.

Thank you for input.

I know everyone means well, and that's why you guys (and gals) took the time to respond to my post. Much appreciated.

Running carbon is one thing that I have overlooked. I didn't know that I would need do it this soon.

Thanks again

 

[newbie2014]

The advice that I offered is based on logical deduction to a potential source to the OP's problems based on information given. What will not harm fish, but will quickly kill a variety of easy-to-grow corals so rapidly.

to OP: Do you dip your corals before adding to the tank? You may have accidentally introduced a pest that just target corals to your tank as well. That would also explain why only your corals are dying off so quickly but fish are fine and parameters are normal.

No, I didn't dip the corals before introduction? I bought them from reputable source/store, so that never really cross my mind. How do I ID them?

Thanks again

 

[drillsar]

here maybe a stupid ? did you dip the corals before adding them? possible pests

 

[drillsar]

lol just was asking this lol

 

[drillsar]

YOU MUST ALWAYS DIP CORALS !!! never trust any source

 

[newbie2014]

First off, it is nearly impossible to accurately diagnose problems in a tank that you don't see & care for every day, all we can do is offer suggestions...try this, try that, do this, don't do that, based on prior experiences, the fact that you feel any corals are EASY to grow, suggests to me that you haven't had much trial & error in keeping a reef. Sure, some corals require less exacting standards, but keeping a living, breathing, reef in tact is far from easy, it requires TIME & patience, something the iphone generation isn't used to, I get it, sometimes there are no right or wrong answers, just experiences, good & bad, but I have had great success in this hobby & I learned first hand that time, patience & trial & error as well as a working knowledge of the scientific portion of the hobby is tantamount to success. There is no EASY approach to this, there is tons more information available to reefers now then when I started, that is the benefit of trial & error & advancements in the hobby, but it should not be looked upon as easy, because it is not, it is a "labor of love" & if approached that way will provide years & years of satisfaction, pride & pleasure.

I hear you. I can definitely relate to that.

I started keeping fish when I was about ten. It was oversea. It was a prize wild beta fighting fish, not the sissy, fancy type you see in pet stores here. Yes, it won a few fighting contests. I had a 5 gallon tank full of Cabomba and duckweed. That was it. No dedicated light, power filter nor heat. Water change was once a week, and every three days when they spawned. I ended up with so many fish that I had to take them back to the pond where I got the parents from.

There was way before the advent of the Internet. And did I say library was non existence? So, I know what you mean by trial and errors. But, hey, it's a freshwater beta. Easy, peezy, they provably survive in the toilet anyways.

This is the first time I try my hand with saltwater. I'm here to stay, so time is on my side. Looks like my tank will be a FOWLR for a while.

Thank you again for your response.

 

[Reef Ruler]

The advice that I offered is based on logical deduction to a potential source to the OP's problems based on information given. What will not harm fish, but will quickly kill a variety of easy-to-grow corals so rapidly.

to OP: Do you dip your corals before adding to the tank? You may have accidentally introduced a pest that just target corals to your tank as well. That would also explain why only your corals are dying off so quickly but fish are fine and parameters are normal.

Honestly, I agree in the sense that different timelines work for different people. Some people wait months to add anything, and some people don't. I think it just depends on how the parameters are looking and how much time you're willing to devote to the tank. My tank for example, I used the "live sand" which, I agree, the benefits are debatable, all LR from my LFS sumps, and salt water I had made myself. Set the tank up with water, rock, and sand 10/21/15, tank cycled so fast that on 10/28/15 I had added two clowns and a CUC, which are still living. 11/17 I added my first LPS coral, 11/28 my first RBTA, and 12/4 I added my first SPS. All of which are still living, and I would say thriving.

I just say do what works for you. Don't take that to mean "shove 15 hippo tangs in a 55 gallon because it works for me." I just think that some of these "guidelines" that members here are quick to shove down new members throats aren't nearly as strict as they make it seem. Test your tank parameters daily if possible. Figure out what your nutrient levels are, and ca/alk/mg consumption levels are at, and take it from there.

Brian

 

[newbie2014]

YOU MUST ALWAYS DIP CORALS !!! never trust any source

Yes, sir!!!

That was loud and clear.

Thank you for your advice.

 

[BrickFishHouse]

It's not an exact science, but issues tend to lie in the same general areas. There's some good information here.

I am kinda curious about your alkalinity levels, though.

 

[rjjr1963]

i would also agree with Pet Detective and ron. since api is kinda a cheapo test kit and not always the most reliable try asking your lfs to test your water see if you still have traces of ammonia or nitrite also the should be able to test calc and alk for you. as far as light agreed on tuning them down alittle

What would you recommend as a top of the line testing kit? What are the primary chemicals which need to be tested for?

Thanks

 

[newbie2014]

From the information you have given my personal opinion is your lighting was too strong. I would lower it to 20% next time you add a coral and slowly ramp back up and see if you have better luck.

Have done that, and will do in the future.

Thank you

 

[tomreefer]

Well this is what I recommend as far as test kits..

Ammonia, Nitrates and Nitrtite you can get away with API test kits since too me doesn't have to be accurate

Calcium and Alk Either Salifert or Red Sea pro

Magnesium Salifert or Red Sea pro

Phosphates Hanna checker or Red Sea pro.. Salifert way too hard to see color changes in my opinion.

 

[newbie2014]

I agree with the others so I'm not going to repeat it. What I will say is that I've got the same lights over my 40b and I run the blues at 100% and the whites at 50%. I'm at a loss for what's killing them so quickly especially some of the easy and usually forgiving corals you've started with. Also I don't think your flow is too low as I'm only running one 800gph powerhead plus my return which is about 500 ish gph.

Yes, I got, according to Koralia, 2x240 + 420 + MJ1200; and whatever turnover rate for AC110 and aquamaxx HOB skimmer. All of it is diffused. If anything, I might have too much flow.

The lighting part confuses me. Some say it's too low, and some say it's too high. I need to get my hands on a meter....

Thank you for your input.

 

[newbie2014]

With 10 posts, you bashing other people's posts just makes you look like a know-it-all noob that is acting cocky. Your understanding of reef chemistry doesn't help you either. Stressed softies can certainly melt under too powerful lighting in a couple days. So please don't get in the way of experienced reefers trying to help diagnose the problem.

Chemical warfare is certainly a possibility but unless the corals were placed very close together, it is unlikely. You may want to check your alkalinity, since that can cause PH swings if it is too low. Also I noticed you said you have 3 PH amounting to about 900GPH in a 40 gallon tank. That's almost 25X turnover. That's a little high for a softies tank unless your corals are in a sheltered spot. So, I'm thinking that you are seeing a combination of issues that resulted in the corals dying so quickly. This is why we recommend taking it a bit slower, so you have time to find these issues and solve them before wasting money on corals that die in a week or a month.

Yes, I will have to readjust the LED and flow accordingly.

It surprised me that these so-called are so sensitive to something that doesn't bother any of my fish. The toadstools opened for about two days with their tentacles reaching out. That was when I had the light at minimum. So I bumped the light up a little bit. Yet, they still closed up and melted days later.

And I hear you about wasting money. The first three (tiny) corals I got from the store, and they costed me $75. Never again. The subsequent ones that I acquired were either dirt cheap or free from local reefers. It still breaks my heart to see them wither away, and I have no clue as to why.

Thank you for your advice.

 

[newbie2014]

Some toadstools are toxic upon demise, so I hear, particularly the yellow one. Run carbon while having softies: they do chemical warfare and can make problems. You can add coral before you add fish, for that matter, but in general, they CAN get into a snit and conduct warfare.
There are also a lot of environmental causes---householder decides to spray room freshener, etc. You SHOULD have been ok, but that leaves externally arriving poison, death of a toxic specimen, inadequate lights, too much light, or a fish or invert with a taste for corals. THere's also allelopathy, meaning two corals that hate each other and happen to get too close.

Thank you for your input.

Yes, I have to sort out these variables. The toadstools that I got looked white/off-white. Maybe they were light yellow? And I just added carbon to my power filter.

Now, is it a common practice to use carbon all the time when one has corals in the tank?

 

[newbie2014]

In my experience tells me that for one you don't have enough bacteria in your tank, plankton. Tanks really need to mature at least 6 months before adding corals. First corals would be like mushrooms or zoos and see how they do. I am thinking you don't have enough rocks.. You can always add rock to a sump instead of display tank

Duly notes.

I've been hunting more live rocks from local reefers. My tank will be a FOWLR tank for a while. It's just sooooo hard to past on free corals.

Thank you

 

[rjjr1963]

Well this is what I recommend as far as test kits..

Ammonia, Nitrates and Nitrtite you can get away with API test kits since too me doesn't have to be accurate

Calcium and Alk Either Salifert or Red Sea pro

Magnesium Salifert or Red Sea pro

Phosphates Hanna checker or Red Sea pro.. Salifert way too hard to see color changes in my opinion.

To summarize I need to test for:
Ammonia
Nitrates
Nitrites
Calcium
Alkalinity
PH
Magnesium.

Is that correct?

Thanks for your help. I haven't kept saltwater fish in 25 years. Technology has advanced so much since then my head is spinning. lol