seafloor09
New member
So I don't agree with your regurgitated data I'm an ozone dealer, give me a break.
Keep your head in the sand just don't ask others to do the same or follow your incorrect analysis of ozone.
ORP Redox Potential ???
- Thread starter fullmonti
- Start date
So I don't agree with your regurgitated data I'm an ozone dealer, give me a break.
Keep your head in the sand just don't ask others to do the same or follow your incorrect analysis of ozone.
So I don't agree with your regurgitated data I'm an ozone dealer, give me a break.
Keep your head in the sand just don't ask others to do the same or follow your incorrect analysis of ozone.
:lol:
Head in sand? :lol:
Regurgitated data? :lol:
I read the scientific literature and talked to many, many aquariasts very carefully before forming any opinion on ozone. Have you read the scientific literature on ozone? Or are you maybe just repeating something you heard somewhere that sounds good to you?
Sorry, that is not the way the reef chemistry forum works. We focus on science and data and facts. Your only fact relating to aqauria is that lots of public aquaria use ozone. Ever talked to someone in charge at a public aquarium about how and why they use ozone?
I use ozone too. Does that mean I think it does the things you claim?
Do you use ozone?
Keep your head in the sand just don't ask others to do the same or follow your incorrect analysis of ozone.
:lol:
Head in sand? :lol:
Regurgitated data? :lol:
I read the scientific literature and talked to many, many aquariasts very carefully before forming any opinion on ozone. Have you read the scientific literature on ozone? Or are you maybe just repeating something you heard somewhere that sounds good to you?
Sorry, that is not the way the reef chemistry forum works. We focus on science and data and facts. Your only fact relating to aqauria is that lots of public aquaria use ozone. Ever talked to someone in charge at a public aquarium about how and why they use ozone?
I use ozone too. Does that mean I think it does the things you claim?
Do you use ozone?
So I don't agree with your regurgitated data I'm an ozone dealer, give me a break.
If you do not make or sell such equipment, then you have no conflict and that is great to hear. However, don't be so quick to scoff at the suggestion. It is not unheard of for folks selling products of various sorts to come into this forum, disguise who they are, and make claims supporting products or methods that are being discussed. Sometimes it only comes out when I directly ask them, and sometimes even then it only comes out by good internet sleuthing that they actually are a supplier.
Such behavior is not permitted.
Since you are not such a supplier, we most certainly welcome any evidence that supports your contentions for the uses of ozone in reef tanks.
If you do not make or sell such equipment, then you have no conflict and that is great to hear. However, don't be so quick to scoff at the suggestion. It is not unheard of for folks selling products of various sorts to come into this forum, disguise who they are, and make claims supporting products or methods that are being discussed. Sometimes it only comes out when I directly ask them, and sometimes even then it only comes out by good internet sleuthing that they actually are a supplier.
Such behavior is not permitted.
Since you are not such a supplier, we most certainly welcome any evidence that supports your contentions for the uses of ozone in reef tanks.
jason2459
Well-known member
Great thread, very informative! Thanks Randy.
I see there's another ORP question thread going on as well. I don't want to start another one so I'll throw in a question here in this thread. My tank originally was running in the low 100's for ORP. Typically 120 and below. I added an ozonizer and it climbed up to high 100's and low 200's. Highest was 220 I believe. The ozonizer just recently died and getting replace and the ORP has plummeted back down to 120 and below.
Should I be concerned that my tank naturally wants to be so low? Should I be concerned that even with ozone my ORP is still in the low side compared to where people typically think is low for ORP values. Just to let you know, I'm not concerned but just wondered if I should be.
Background: 55g tank just setup for just over 3 months. No sump, HOB refug w/ chaeto. 12 hour light cycle. Ozonizer hooked up to skimmer set at 25mg/h. (even bumping up to 50mg/h didn't make a difference.)
I see there's another ORP question thread going on as well. I don't want to start another one so I'll throw in a question here in this thread. My tank originally was running in the low 100's for ORP. Typically 120 and below. I added an ozonizer and it climbed up to high 100's and low 200's. Highest was 220 I believe. The ozonizer just recently died and getting replace and the ORP has plummeted back down to 120 and below.
Should I be concerned that my tank naturally wants to be so low? Should I be concerned that even with ozone my ORP is still in the low side compared to where people typically think is low for ORP values. Just to let you know, I'm not concerned but just wondered if I should be.
Background: 55g tank just setup for just over 3 months. No sump, HOB refug w/ chaeto. 12 hour light cycle. Ozonizer hooked up to skimmer set at 25mg/h. (even bumping up to 50mg/h didn't make a difference.)
120 mV is pretty low, but it may also not be accurate. Have you ever checked the calibration of the ORP device?
Tanks with refugia and sand/mud often seem to run lower in ORP than bare bottom/big skimmer tanks. Proponents of the latter types take this as evidence that those systems are better. I disagree somewhat, as I really don't think that absolute ORP values mean much. If macroalgae area releasing some organics into the water that keep ORP down, is that a concern? Maybe, but it is not obviously the case.
I'd judge the tank by the appearance of the inhabitants in terms of growth and other factors that seem directly related to health, and not an abstract chemical thing like ORP.
That said, if things also appear to be doing poorly, then the ORP may well relate to the same issues that cause the poor health. Hydrogen sulfide release to the water from sand, excessive organic levels, etc.
Tanks with refugia and sand/mud often seem to run lower in ORP than bare bottom/big skimmer tanks. Proponents of the latter types take this as evidence that those systems are better. I disagree somewhat, as I really don't think that absolute ORP values mean much. If macroalgae area releasing some organics into the water that keep ORP down, is that a concern? Maybe, but it is not obviously the case.
I'd judge the tank by the appearance of the inhabitants in terms of growth and other factors that seem directly related to health, and not an abstract chemical thing like ORP.
That said, if things also appear to be doing poorly, then the ORP may well relate to the same issues that cause the poor health. Hydrogen sulfide release to the water from sand, excessive organic levels, etc.
jason2459
Well-known member
Thanks. The tank inhabitants right now are just fish, snails, hermits, shrimps, and a bazillion different pods. All seem happy and healthy (minus one dwarf angel that I received already sick.) I plan on adding an anem, softies, and LPS down the road as the tank is more matured.
I really don't have a sand or mud bed or bare bottom. I have a dolomite gravel substrate that is about 1-2in deep in the main DT and in the HOB refug I just have some live rock no substrate along with the chaeto. I have the skimmer pulling from the DT and suppling the HOB refug.
50lbs of rock that I started with was from a previous tank I had to break down due to my entire state being flooded and everything in my tank cooked at 90+ degrees for a week. So, I'm sure that dead rock had lots of organic materials breaking down and possibly still breaking down? I also added another 25lbs of live rock and tank went 0/0/0 in three weeks. My nitrates/phosphates have been 0 since then.
Cyano hasn't been a problem and I have went through a massive briopsis bloom just over a month ago that completely disappeared on its own. I do have a few small patches of turf algae on some rock that hasn't grown or shrunk in a month and I think is quite nice looking.
I really don't have a sand or mud bed or bare bottom. I have a dolomite gravel substrate that is about 1-2in deep in the main DT and in the HOB refug I just have some live rock no substrate along with the chaeto. I have the skimmer pulling from the DT and suppling the HOB refug.
50lbs of rock that I started with was from a previous tank I had to break down due to my entire state being flooded and everything in my tank cooked at 90+ degrees for a week. So, I'm sure that dead rock had lots of organic materials breaking down and possibly still breaking down? I also added another 25lbs of live rock and tank went 0/0/0 in three weeks. My nitrates/phosphates have been 0 since then.
Cyano hasn't been a problem and I have went through a massive briopsis bloom just over a month ago that completely disappeared on its own. I do have a few small patches of turf algae on some rock that hasn't grown or shrunk in a month and I think is quite nice looking.
It may be accurate as is. Some ORP meters do not even alllow for "calibration", unlike all pH meters, which always require calibration.
Randy,
I've read your articles several times; very helpful.
Do you think ozone on balance is a plus or negative when dosing organic carbon? I know you have been using them both.
I have a generator and all the fixins to start dosing but I'm hesitant about potential unforeseen effects on the bacteria in particular. Current orp is about 300mv without it.
I would use it with a hope to enhance organic carbon export by the granulated organic carbon which is already in use. As I keep leathers in the system along with sps, I particularly want to degrade alelopathic compounds and help to ensure export of organic carbon in general.
I've read your articles several times; very helpful.
Do you think ozone on balance is a plus or negative when dosing organic carbon? I know you have been using them both.
I have a generator and all the fixins to start dosing but I'm hesitant about potential unforeseen effects on the bacteria in particular. Current orp is about 300mv without it.
I would use it with a hope to enhance organic carbon export by the granulated organic carbon which is already in use. As I keep leathers in the system along with sps, I particularly want to degrade alelopathic compounds and help to ensure export of organic carbon in general.
Thanks.
Do you think ozone on balance is a plus or negative when dosing organic carbon?
I'm not sure on that yet. I'm still mostly using it, but I've switched it off a few times for a day or two to see if I detect anything substantially different (I did not).
Getting rid of toxins (at least some of them) in a fine use for ozone and GAC and skimming, IMO.
Do you think ozone on balance is a plus or negative when dosing organic carbon?
I'm not sure on that yet. I'm still mostly using it, but I've switched it off a few times for a day or two to see if I detect anything substantially different (I did not).
Getting rid of toxins (at least some of them) in a fine use for ozone and GAC and skimming, IMO.
GTR
Active member
No need continue, just give us a link.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Should-You-Have-Ozone-In-The-Reef-Aquarium?&id=764943
SteveU
Billybeau1
Premium Member
Jason, I suspect there is something wrong with your ORP meter or probe. I really doubt your ORP is really holding steady below 200 mv.
Have you tried a calibration fluid to check your equipment ?
They make a 400 mv solution to check the accuracy of the probe. You may want to pick some up.
Have you tried a calibration fluid to check your equipment ?
They make a 400 mv solution to check the accuracy of the probe. You may want to pick some up.
No need continue, just give us a link.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Should...ium?&id=764943
To use one of my daughters favorite phrases: OMG!
That is where it came from. :lol:
Here's a beauty from that one:
"Chemical experts have always maintained that ozone is fresher and more life-sustaining than oxygen."
:lol:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Should...ium?&id=764943
To use one of my daughters favorite phrases: OMG!
That is where it came from. :lol:
Here's a beauty from that one:
"Chemical experts have always maintained that ozone is fresher and more life-sustaining than oxygen."
:lol:
Seafloor
You appear to be lost here, ozone dealer or not so let me help you .
Using ozone thru a skimmer is not as efficient as a reactor.
We know that, that is old news not new news I use to design Ozone reactors and for many such a unit in this hobby is not needed. I ran Ozone for almost 40 years
Your level of 300-330 was a bit low to fully asertain the effects of ozone.
You can get 400 mV in sytems without using any Ozone at all. He could have given 400-430 mV with the Ozone hardly even turned on. What would your comment then be ?
Was it not possible with the equip you used to reach those levels?
You're lost. Just because a tank has an ORP 400 mV using Ozone and other has 425 mV DOES NOT mean the 425 mV tank is better. If you believe that then get out of he Ozone business. Please seek text book on what REDOX reactions are. Pure freshly made seawater has a ORP of only 220 -270 mV. What is purer than that ?
Only one brand American Marine was used along with one probe, hardly enough of a control.
Control what ? In a small reef tank you DO NOT need multi controllers or probes. That is a silly comment. The dosages we use in home reef tanks are on the order of 0.3 - 0.5 mg / gal /hr. You can not kill things with that.
Ozone used correctly does a hech of a lot more than clear the water, IMO
Not in reef tanks and not in most public seawater aquariums, where they run levels based on AOD. Do you even know what that means and how that regulates using TRO as a control factor ? Most reef displays in public aquariums use Ozone at at rate of 0.02- 0.05 mg /gal / hr . Do you even know why they are so low. Would you like to have me put you in contact with the director of the Baltimore Aquarium or the new CAS Stienhart Aquarium or a few others. I know many of them personally. Other than clarity very low levels help in better fractionating if a skimmer is being used. If you crank up the Ozone higher it inhibits fractionating.
The use of ozone has long been a standard practice in industrial and public water purification plants, and large scale public aquarium filtration, as one of the best and most efficient means to increase water quality.
One of the biggest problems to overcome in these closed water systems is the accumulation of dissolved organic waste from various biological sources such as animal waste and decomposing food and plant material.
A reef tank is not the above. Get your head out of the sand.
Ozone helps in the eliminations of wastes that the aquatic inhabitants will produce. It oxidizes the pollutants in the tank and brings them to a form from which they can be discarded properly.
Yes it does and it is common for that in zoos with Dolphin, Penguin (other bird) and Seal Tanks. And we do not have any of those. Last time I checked they also did not have gills or breath through diffusionary means unless there has been a sudden evolutionary leap in the last couple of days.
Ozone is also a disinfecting agent. Since it can combat with most pathogens,
You DO NOT use Ozone for that in reef tanks and CAN'T you will kill things. Do you even have a clue what the ATO rate is to kill pathogens and what the contact time is. Yeah, go ahead an work that out for me mathematically and what the end mV will be to bring about disinfection in a 50 gal of net water.
In some public aquariums they use degassing towers. Now, do you have clue what those are used for in regards to Ozone use ?
Ozone enhances the quality of the water. Ozone is a fresh gas, present in the higher realms of the atmosphere where it is purer. The same kind of purity is brought into the reef tank when ozone is used in it. Ozonized water is odorless, colorless and tasteless.
You are really lost her pal :lol:
Ozone does not leave chemical wastes in the water when it is passed through it. That means, when water is ozonized, there will be effectively less amount of wastes and chemical discharges into the water.
Please stop selling or commenting on Ozone. I have never see somebody so lost in my life. Look up the term TRO. And get out of your head a reef tank is NOT a waste treatment or city water purification plant.
Ask the curators of public aquariums what they use.
I know many of them want a list ? Want to know how they use Ozone in seawater or in reef tanks and why ?
Have you ever been here. Apparently they do not know what they are talking about. You should inform them they have it all wrong
International Symposium for Water Quality and Treatment for Zoos and Aquaria
http://www.aqualitysymposium.org/abstracts.php
Try to find the word Ozone there and if you can't come back hear and I will "try" to guide you through it.
I know who has their head in the sand
Shall I continue ? !!!!
You appear to be lost here, ozone dealer or not so let me help you .
Using ozone thru a skimmer is not as efficient as a reactor.
We know that, that is old news not new news I use to design Ozone reactors and for many such a unit in this hobby is not needed. I ran Ozone for almost 40 years
Your level of 300-330 was a bit low to fully asertain the effects of ozone.
You can get 400 mV in sytems without using any Ozone at all. He could have given 400-430 mV with the Ozone hardly even turned on. What would your comment then be ?
Was it not possible with the equip you used to reach those levels?
You're lost. Just because a tank has an ORP 400 mV using Ozone and other has 425 mV DOES NOT mean the 425 mV tank is better. If you believe that then get out of he Ozone business. Please seek text book on what REDOX reactions are. Pure freshly made seawater has a ORP of only 220 -270 mV. What is purer than that ?
Only one brand American Marine was used along with one probe, hardly enough of a control.
Control what ? In a small reef tank you DO NOT need multi controllers or probes. That is a silly comment. The dosages we use in home reef tanks are on the order of 0.3 - 0.5 mg / gal /hr. You can not kill things with that.
Ozone used correctly does a hech of a lot more than clear the water, IMO
Not in reef tanks and not in most public seawater aquariums, where they run levels based on AOD. Do you even know what that means and how that regulates using TRO as a control factor ? Most reef displays in public aquariums use Ozone at at rate of 0.02- 0.05 mg /gal / hr . Do you even know why they are so low. Would you like to have me put you in contact with the director of the Baltimore Aquarium or the new CAS Stienhart Aquarium or a few others. I know many of them personally. Other than clarity very low levels help in better fractionating if a skimmer is being used. If you crank up the Ozone higher it inhibits fractionating.
The use of ozone has long been a standard practice in industrial and public water purification plants, and large scale public aquarium filtration, as one of the best and most efficient means to increase water quality.
One of the biggest problems to overcome in these closed water systems is the accumulation of dissolved organic waste from various biological sources such as animal waste and decomposing food and plant material.
A reef tank is not the above. Get your head out of the sand.
Ozone helps in the eliminations of wastes that the aquatic inhabitants will produce. It oxidizes the pollutants in the tank and brings them to a form from which they can be discarded properly.
Yes it does and it is common for that in zoos with Dolphin, Penguin (other bird) and Seal Tanks. And we do not have any of those. Last time I checked they also did not have gills or breath through diffusionary means unless there has been a sudden evolutionary leap in the last couple of days.
Ozone is also a disinfecting agent. Since it can combat with most pathogens,
You DO NOT use Ozone for that in reef tanks and CAN'T you will kill things. Do you even have a clue what the ATO rate is to kill pathogens and what the contact time is. Yeah, go ahead an work that out for me mathematically and what the end mV will be to bring about disinfection in a 50 gal of net water.
In some public aquariums they use degassing towers. Now, do you have clue what those are used for in regards to Ozone use ?
Ozone enhances the quality of the water. Ozone is a fresh gas, present in the higher realms of the atmosphere where it is purer. The same kind of purity is brought into the reef tank when ozone is used in it. Ozonized water is odorless, colorless and tasteless.
You are really lost her pal :lol:
Ozone does not leave chemical wastes in the water when it is passed through it. That means, when water is ozonized, there will be effectively less amount of wastes and chemical discharges into the water.
Please stop selling or commenting on Ozone. I have never see somebody so lost in my life. Look up the term TRO. And get out of your head a reef tank is NOT a waste treatment or city water purification plant.
Ask the curators of public aquariums what they use.
I know many of them want a list ? Want to know how they use Ozone in seawater or in reef tanks and why ?
Have you ever been here. Apparently they do not know what they are talking about. You should inform them they have it all wrong
International Symposium for Water Quality and Treatment for Zoos and Aquaria
http://www.aqualitysymposium.org/abstracts.php
Try to find the word Ozone there and if you can't come back hear and I will "try" to guide you through it.
I know who has their head in the sand
Shall I continue ? !!!!
Last edited:
Billybeau1
Premium Member
The old double barrel :uzi::blown:
Haven't seen that in awhile.
Haven't seen that in awhile.
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