OT - When does a recession become a depression?

Less then ten days and AIG comes back and needs another 35 billion? The fed has the power to just give it to them? I am really in the wrong business.

Next is the automakers, Airlines, Banks. Oh wait we already did that. Where does this stop?

I realize The whole Enron crap is different but it is not that much different.

I am thinking my 7.5 K might not be low enough.

I wonder how many people have been driven out of the hobby due to the rising cost to live?
 
Don't forget the retailers...
They're already predicting a dire Christmas shopping season, so retailers will need their own bialout too :strange:
 
Don't catch the falling knife. Pick it up once it hits the ground.

Seriously though, many people don't know the effect of the current activity on wall street. To bring it home, within our hobby any wholesaler/retailer that is depending on a line of credit or home equity loan to float their inventory will most likely be in for a rude awakening in the coming months. In additon our Credit Card rates, monthly minimums, and annual fees are all likely to go up. The cost of processing credit cards for a retailer will go up. That will certainly raise the cost of anything we buy. In the end, prices are going up, credit limits will probably go down, and sources will dry up. Support your LFS. They are going to need it.
 
Anyone know anything about municipal bonds and how counties raise revenue? I have a new fear.....
 
Perhaps we should ask ourselfs if there is anything that is not to fear. It all looks rather bad from a Us standpoint. you grow yourself out of these times. The problem is our current growth has been from credit. Now that is gone along with manufacturing I think we a huge issue on our hands.

all I know about municiple bonds is that you need 25k+ to invest and they are low yeild but have zero taxes so that makes them more interesting. What is your fear?
 
Just a few corrections because this is what I talk about all day. There is no 25K minumum on Muni Bonds as a rule, the ones I generally have, have a 5K minimum some as low as 1K. Rates on Munis are really attractive right now actually saw one the other day in Georgia at 5.75%. I know that doesn't sound that great but figure in your tax bracket say 28% and now all of a sudden you have to find a 8% return to compete with it. And really Muni bonds are pretty darn conservative from a safety standpoint. Investment grade general obligation munis have a default rate that competes with AAA corporations default rates- something in the .3% range. This is one of only few (I believe 3) times in history that we are seeing the yield with Munis actually flat out compete with the yield in Corporates before even figuring in the effect of taxation.

As for the fear Genetics is refering to, I believe its the fact that a Municipality has full taxing authority to pay for its bonds, so if revenues go down from a given project and the debt can't be paid taxes may go up to pay the debt.

Reader digest version- More taxes longer recession
 
Thanks Vance for clearing that up. Are those rate returns pretty solid? I would kill for 5 percent now.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13515552#post13515552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by porky
I holding out for 7500 :cool:
Click to expand...

You might want to set your goal lower... The crash of 2008 will be the end of.... our easy credit, the american auto industry, the housing market, and peoples nestegg. Plus the added benefit of increased taxes. The layoffs are just about to get started.... Think 6200...

Don't think great depression.... think Panic of 1907.
 
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Perhaps I am hopelessly optimistic but I don't think it will get that bad. I agree that we have not reached rock bottom yet, but I think a lot of what we saw was the lift of the short selling ban which should have been allowed to run its course from the beginning. Ironically, I DO think we are getting close to the precipice. Too many wrong moves could have detrimental impacts. If history shows us anything, raising taxes for one, could mean the difference between recession and depression.

If only I hadn't spent what I have on my tank I would have more cash, LOL. There are a lot of strong companies out there for a bargain.
 
You know another 1000 pts and we are half of what we were in october. What type of correction would you call this?
 
Wait until people start having their homes reaccessed due to the decrease in property value. it may take a few years to realize but cities will feel this crunch 1-2 years after the fact with lower tax revenue due to slower sales, less income tax and devalued home prices. The market may rebound, but others will be slower to recover. CASH IS KING!!! Conserve what you have. There will be allot of bargains in the coming months/year.
 
I'm still amazed no one has talked about the potential collapse of GE, the sixth largest company in the world.
 
GE has been all over the news. GM is also on the brink, trading at its 58 year low. JD Powers announced today they expect the complete collapse of the auto industry in 2009.

Asian markets are down 20%. Trying to be optimistic isn't working. Time to mix a drink.....
 
GM and Fords death will be a huge blow to the employment rate and workers. With that said however they both missed the ball here. Selling a hummer and a hybrid SUV that gets 18 mpg when the original get 19 is bad leadership. Add an electric car that goes 100 miles on a charge and costs 45K is another bad judgment.

Rum should be cheaper now right? They did pass that tax break down to the consumer I hope! :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13517302#post13517302 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by serpentman
GE has been all over the news. GM is also on the brink, trading at its 58 year low. JD Powers announced today they expect the complete collapse of the auto industry in 2009.

Asian markets are down 20%. Trying to be optimistic isn't working. Time to mix a drink.....
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't have cable so I don't get this information. Drink sounds good. Just stuck my head in my tank and yelled!

If the asian markets stay down 20% (which china was a looming disaster because of their insanely high PE) then maybe the low point is just a few days away.
 
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