Over the tank sump

Any ideas on how to make this better?

I'm thinking of widening the surge reservoir section and cutting into the other regions to get rid of the elbows in the surge outlet pipes. Make them straight shots...

The current surge is 27" high, but the new one will be 16"... So the pressure will be lower.
Of course, I think mine is overpowered right now anyway.
 
ok. gone through multiple iterations and moved to a surge and constant flow gravity design.

Please take a look

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/1_zpshctm1anq.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/1_zpshctm1anq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpshctm1anq.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/2_zpsm9gnnucf.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/2_zpsm9gnnucf.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2_zpsm9gnnucf.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/3_zpsc7stbymx.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/3_zpsc7stbymx.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3_zpsc7stbymx.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/4_zpsxzrbsvdy.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/4_zpsxzrbsvdy.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 4_zpsxzrbsvdy.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/5_zpsuw3spevk.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/5_zpsuw3spevk.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 5_zpsuw3spevk.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/6_zpsqbhbs1hy.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/6_zpsqbhbs1hy.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 6_zpsqbhbs1hy.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/7_zpslnjzucjs.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/7_zpslnjzucjs.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 7_zpslnjzucjs.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/8_zpscas93gne.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/8_zpscas93gne.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 8_zpscas93gne.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/9_zpskqy8tarq.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/9_zpskqy8tarq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9_zpskqy8tarq.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/10_zps38nxh21x.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/10_zps38nxh21x.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 10_zps38nxh21x.jpg"/></a>
 
The eggcrate is to contain the chaeto and DSB buckets.

The high and low level sensors are used to control the feed pumps and the actuators.

The Apex control would ensure that the flow from the top reservoir to the DT is always full - no bubbles.
 
The are two flows - the surge operates at certain times and only during the day.

The standard flow (pink) pipes are dialed down so that the pumps have enough time to fill the reservoir for the surge. The pumps always deliver more than the standard flow drains release into the DT.

When the surge program is off, the level rises to trigger the top level sensor, and the controller turns the pumps off.

When the surge program is on, the level rises to trigger the top level sensor, and controller opens the actuated surges (based on a program).

If the level rises too high, the controller can turn the pumps off or open the surge to create relief.

In case of an active system failure, a passive safety pipe drains into the DT.
 
Last edited:
another little feature I added is that the top level sensor is higher than the baffles and the chaeto. This means that the surge will pull water from the reservoir section and about an inch off the chaeto top. This is intentional to pull what's in the chaeto into the DT.
 
Are you planning on bracing or just thick enough acrylic for the ~16-17" of water it will have?

Its hard to tell how wide the cross flow area is from the end chambers. It seems pretty narrow, but i dunno. I'd probably make it the same as the distance the inner thing is from the baffles just for consistency.
 
The two cross baffles should brace it. At a max height of 18", I'll go with 3/8" acrylic.

All baffle spacing are 3", as is the cross flow area. The flow has to be exceptionally fast between the two surge reservoir sections since I'm only placing on set of sensors and the surge events are independent (left only, right only, or overlap)
 
Sounds good. A 3" channel should be nice, especially since you aren't draining it that low i expect. Whats the volume of the surge in the design chambers vs the existing one? Are you gaining some, losing some or designed to be identical?
 
The total current surge is 100g. Each of the reservoirs in the new design are about 50g each and the the refugium is 100g. So the surge volume is about the same and the total tank is 200g.

The shape is different though. The current surge container is 26" high, so the surge potential is very high. Of course, the whole platform is about 30" above the DT water, so the total potential is 56". The new setup peaks at about 17", so the new potential is 47". That likely translates to a 15% reduction in flow rate. The current design has at least two elbows vs this straight shot design, so it might even out.

To have the same volume, the new setup is wider and longer. Since the surge stop will be tuned to always leave at least 3" of water over the U pipes, that means that more water will be left undrained in the new setup. So the surge duration and volume will drop some.

The new surge should be about 20gal max each. The current has the capacity to 30g each, but the sump wasn't capable of absorbing a dual 60g hit, so I had to dial it back to 20g each. The new sump can handle about 80g, but the reservoir is too small. :D
 
The current reservoir is opaque with a level tube and fixed depth level sensors. The new one is clear, so I might be able to tune this one better.

Learning from the last design, I made the level sensors independently adjustable so I can experiment with increasing the volume by reducing the stop surge threshold.

The current surge is bubble free so that's the goal here again.
 
I originally had two return pumps to the reservoir: one from the sump and another from the overflow.

Now going to run two returns from the overflow up to the top reservoir.

Also running 2 more lines from the left and one line from the right of the sump.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/x_zps98uycrxl.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/x_zps98uycrxl.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo x_zps98uycrxl.jpg"/></a>
 
So... after going back and forth on this, I agree that I need 5 separate inlet boxes to align with the 5 independent pumps.

I also raised the separators to avoid water flowing from one box to the next. All flow out into the first stage.

Also added a cover sheet of acrylic to avoid bugs getting into the tank... a little worried about the light not getting to the chaeto though.

Here are the pics:

full view
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/1_zpse8lohfjx.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/1_zpse8lohfjx.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1_zpse8lohfjx.jpg"/></a>

removing the top
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/2_zpsepqpxavx.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/2_zpsepqpxavx.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2_zpsepqpxavx.jpg"/></a>

removing the front and back panels
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/3_zpsfab7mw68.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/3_zpsfab7mw68.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3_zpsfab7mw68.jpg"/></a>

removing the baffles (just the inlet boxes left)
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/4_zps3b8ixndo.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/4_zps3b8ixndo.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 4_zps3b8ixndo.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/5_zps64tuvoix.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/5_zps64tuvoix.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 5_zps64tuvoix.jpg"/></a>

thoughts? concerns?
 
Here are the different heights

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/6_zpsd3vnhhnj.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/6_zpsd3vnhhnj.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 6_zpsd3vnhhnj.jpg"/></a>

So the idea is that the water would flow in at the "inflow box" level.

The water flows over the "overflow baffle" and under the "underflow baffle (bottom)".

The level continues to rise allowing for some normal non-surge flow out of the gate valved pipes. Flow in is a lot higher than flow out.

When the level reaches the "surge high point" which is the same as the inflow box level, the actuators release and start the surge. The point of waiting to this level is to allow the chaeto to be flushed out with each surge.

The surge continues until the "surge low point" is reached. This is about 4" over the U tube tops, which are 3" higher than the openings. So there's 7" from the top of the water level to the U tube intakes... this is to avoid a vortex that'll suck air in.

If there's any blockage, the water level would rise first above the top of the "underflow baffle" level - this means that water can flow above and below it. If the water continues to rise, it would reach the "emergency overflow". This 1" below the top.
 
So, if a pump fails... unless the water level is higher than the inflow box level, the individual box would flow back and then siphon break.

The water level shouldn't be higher than the inflow box unless it's just a few second into the start of the surge release - or an emergency condition.

I think this all works, but it's a big project, so I would really appreciate any feedback before I start building.
 
That divided box will be really quite hard to build i suspect. You might be able to do it if you prebuild the box, then lay it on the back wall while the wall is still just a flat piece. If you skip the cover or leave that for later you could even apply solvent from both ends with a shorter needle... still pretty long though. Bonding the verticals from left to right or vice versa would let you pry up the whole box a little from the unbonded side as you go one at a time.

That only leaves the bottom... Maybe you can use big enough shims to fit a needle under the box to apply solvent before you remove all the shims and drop the sides on the bottom. This joint will be done at the same time as the other sides to bottom, so a helper or two will probably be handy.
 
Talked to a local fabricator and he recommended the thick acrylic glues instead of the wet solvents. He uses it for difficult fits.

I was planning on assembling the back wall and sides to the base first and then build from the innermost to the outermost pieces.

The top will remain unglued... The last PVC elbows won't be glued either... Little messier but hard gluing will be a major pain in case I ever need to do anything up there.
 
Here's what I was thinking for a build process flow. I also raised the tops and reconfigured the covers to give the algae better light access.

1. Glue the raised baffles (underflow) to the back pane.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/14_zps6oor8vj4.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/14_zps6oor8vj4.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 14_zps6oor8vj4.jpg"/></a>

2. Glue the back (with raised baffles suspended) to the bottom pane. I'll use spacers to keep them suspended.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/13_zpsa9amezrx.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/13_zpsa9amezrx.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 13_zpsa9amezrx.jpg"/></a>

3. Glue the sides. This is essentially done at the same time as step 2. If I have to do them separately, I'll sand the interface edges.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/12_zpsbguh680o.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/12_zpsbguh680o.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 12_zpsbguh680o.jpg"/></a>

4. First inlet box edge. Glued to the back and bottom.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/11_zpso296xweg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/11_zpso296xweg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 11_zpso296xweg.jpg"/></a>

5.... Glue each box edge in sequence. This gives me time and room.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/10_zpsztb5jdda.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/10_zpsztb5jdda.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 10_zpsztb5jdda.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/9_zps5c345qhc.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/9_zps5c345qhc.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9_zps5c345qhc.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/8_zpsuganrspe.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/8_zpsuganrspe.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 8_zpsuganrspe.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/7_zps94kvpixw.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/7_zps94kvpixw.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 7_zps94kvpixw.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/6_zpsqo3grvhg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/6_zpsqo3grvhg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 6_zpsqo3grvhg.jpg"/></a>

6. The front of the inlet box is glued to the bottom and to each of the panes with thick weldon glue. This is the tricky part, but it can be a little messy.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/5_zpslwl97xry.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/5_zpslwl97xry.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 5_zpslwl97xry.jpg"/></a>
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Sump at Same Level as DT
Replies
9
Views
482
wvned
wvned
P
DIY Hang on back Sump Tank
Replies
14
Views
493
kharmaguru
kharmaguru
D
Balancing a Dual Sump System
Replies
18
Views
1K
Hong Kong
Hong Kong
C
Thoughts anyone?
Replies
7
Views
318
Cool Fish
Cool Fish
TreyB381
200 gallon single 2” drain, how would you do it?
Replies
6
Views
411
Vinny Kreyling
Vinny Kreyling
Back
Top