Owners Thread: Innovative Marine Fusion 40

Having a terrible day

Having a terrible day

Sometimes you have to share the bad stuff to get it off your chest. I put up a post a while back on losing my first stock (fire shrimp, one acro frag and a birdsnest). Basically, I had turned my lights off for the three day cyano treatment (which worked great) but believe that I lost the stock because my KH was off the charts high. The other issue was that my two clown fish were pooping long white stringy things and getting picky with the food.

I moved the clowns into QT with a blenny and treated with prazi. They immediately started eating again and never developed any symptoms that indicated parasites. This was about 4 weeks ago. In the meantime, I watched my KH and it came down on its own (currently around 9.7 in both DT and QT). And my remaining corals looked happy again. All seemed well.

So last weekend I replaced my fire shrimp (one of my sons is in camp and was really attached to the old one - didn't want him to figure out he'd gone missing). My usual mistake was buying something new when I was getting on a plane the next day. Anyway, the shrimp wasn't eating as I got on the plane and I was concerned.

Last night I got home. The shrimp was probably 2 days dead. CUC was working him over pretty good. The main tank had no fish in it at this time and has always had great water parameters (KH issues aside).

I had on my calendar that the QT fish could be moved to DT and I decided last night to move all three (2 clowns and blenny). I prepped my moving jug, did a 30 minute acclimation (which in hindsight wasn't the best job I've ever done but my QT tank has virtually the same parameters as DT since I usually take water from DT and move to QT during water changes).

The fish went in around 7 PM, swam to their old spots (clowns that is) settled under ledges and seemed normal. This morning the small clown was dead. I was in a panic. I captured the other clown (who looked ok but was breathing heavily) and started to re-acclimate him to return to the QT. By the time I had him in the QT he was gasping for air and swimming badly - clearly in distress. At this point I spent the next hour watching him die. Can ammonia of .25 cause poisoning?

I have to admit, I was so depressed that I considered breaking the tank down and getting out. I had never lost a clown before (my first tank in the 90s had two clowns that survived moves, small tanks, exploding heaters, etc. and lived over 7 years (one lived 10)). I did a thorough water test of both tanks. The parameters are similar in both (good levels). Only parameter that was different than usual was in the DT which showed ammonia of .25 (usually reads 0) which I attributed to the shrimp death/decomposition. Salinity and temp was the same in both tanks as well.

I'm thoroughly stumped and waiting to see if my blenny survives. I've changed out 25% of the DT water to be safe, ammonia is now down between .25 an 0.
 
Choss, sorry to hear about the losses, I am far from being experienced but you shouldn't have any ammonia in the tank.

Sometimes you chase the sick fish around to move them between QT and DT and it really stress them out even more, they could die shortly after.
 
I'm thoroughly stumped and waiting to see if my blenny survives. I've changed out 25% of the DT water to be safe, ammonia is now down between .25 an 0.

So sorry to hear that. Never fun, but extremely frustrating when it's a complete surprise.

I'm definitely no seasoned expert either, but would have to think that there's some type of chemical problem (as opposed to a biological pathogen). I can't imagine any sort of pathogen moving that quickly to infect and kill its host within a matter of hours.

Just to be certain - did you check for nitrites? Best I can recall, nitrite is more toxic to fish than ammonia. Since nitrite is the second product in the nitrogen cycle and since you were showing ammonia present, it stands to reason that there "should" have been nitrites either already present or well on their way as the shrimp decomposed.

There's a good, thorough article by Randy Holmes-Farley here that details all the specifics on the nitrogen cycle. Does sound reasonable based on what we know about your experience that ammonia and/or nitrites could be responsible. Looking particularly in the section about toxicity, it does seem that your measured values could theoretically be the cause for the loss of fish.
 
Sorry for the loss. It's never easy. Every time I lose something I freak out and test everything. When it's all good, then it's a mystery. If it was the ammonia, your live rock should convert it pretty quick. Normally every time we feed, it's a small ammonia spike till it fully processes. Not .25 spike but small..you could add some stability to the tank to drop it quick too.
I always blame the shrimp or hermits...but they are opportunistic feeders. Except the big nasty skunk we up used to have. It would sit on the rock and jump at any fish that swam close...he's in another tank now..
I keep thinking I'll rehome them all, but never do. Unless they pick at the corals..then all bets are off..

And no, my tank pad didn't come yet. Ups tracking says Wednesday.
I just threw out 60g of not FSW. Mixed too long. Smelled funky, like weak ammonia...better safe than sorry...

Hope Frank shows up for dinner. He's been missing all day....
 
Choss, sorry to hear about the losses, I am far from being experienced but you shouldn't have any ammonia in the tank.

Sometimes you chase the sick fish around to move them between QT and DT and it really stress them out even more, they could die shortly after.

My ammonia has read 0 for several months now. the .25 I attribute to the freshly decomposing shrimp that I took out last night. I wouldn't have thought the shrimp could cause an issue - which is why I ended up not worrying about the move from QT to DT last night. I agree that I should have left clown 2 in the DT since he was probably significantly more stressed once I moved him back. But that is what panic will do.
 
So sorry to hear that. Never fun, but extremely frustrating when it's a complete surprise.

I'm definitely no seasoned expert either, but would have to think that there's some type of chemical problem (as opposed to a biological pathogen). I can't imagine any sort of pathogen moving that quickly to infect and kill its host within a matter of hours.

Just to be certain - did you check for nitrites? Best I can recall, nitrite is more toxic to fish than ammonia. Since nitrite is the second product in the nitrogen cycle and since you were showing ammonia present, it stands to reason that there "should" have been nitrites either already present or well on their way as the shrimp decomposed.

There's a good, thorough article by Randy Holmes-Farley here that details all the specifics on the nitrogen cycle. Does sound reasonable based on what we know about your experience that ammonia and/or nitrites could be responsible. Looking particularly in the section about toxicity, it does seem that your measured values could theoretically be the cause for the loss of fish.

Yeah all other levels (including nitrites) were at 0 except ammonia which was at .25. I agree, it has to be chemical though. The fish were healthy and eating in QT (like pigs!).
 
ok - so this was actually pretty funny

ok - so this was actually pretty funny

I was staring at my tank looking for a bright side after today's disaster, and i saw something which I've seen a few times before. Basically, once in a while, my 5 striped leg hermits suddenly "sprint" from all places in the tank, to suddenly meet up in a corner and brawl. They literally all start sparring. Its a giant tumbling mess. Lasts a few minutes and then they all go back about their business no worse off. Here is a video of the rumble (hope it works - its my first video attempt)

<iframe width="854" height="510" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DGo5_VksTLE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
I was staring at my tank looking for a bright side after today's disaster, and i saw something which I've seen a few times before. Basically, once in a while, my 5 striped leg hermits suddenly "sprint" from all places in the tank, to suddenly meet up in a corner and brawl. They literally all start sparring. Its a giant tumbling mess. Lasts a few minutes and then they all go back about their business no worse off. Here is a video of the rumble (hope it works - its my first video attempt)

That's funny. Maybe someone pooped? I know my big OC follows the tang around waiting for a treat...
 
Well I am back. What an amazing 2 week trip with the family. The tank did incredibly well; probably because I had a 4 year old watching it and followed my directions perfectly.

Welcome new members, and glad everyone is switching to the sicce.. I having great success with it. Decided to slowly re-home my hermit crabs..just don't want to keep watching the birdsnets, montis and all the other that they like to nibble at. Just not worth it.

I am at a point where I feel the tank is running well on its own. Now I can sit back and enjoy it and think of what to do next
 
So aside from that being really cool to watch, now I'm really confused about what could be going on.

Again, definitely not a marine biologist here. But isn't the general rule of thumb that fish are much more tolerant of less-than-ideal chemistry than inverts? And your crabs are obviously not in acute distress.

So at this point, I'm way out of my league but does anyone think that maybe there's a problem with dissolved oxygen? Just trying to think of what could possibly take out two seemingly healthy fish so quickly but leave the hermit crabs happy and energetic. :headwallblue:

I was staring at my tank looking for a bright side after today's disaster, and i saw something which I've seen a few times before. Basically, once in a while, my 5 striped leg hermits suddenly "sprint" from all places in the tank, to suddenly meet up in a corner and brawl.
 
Well I am back. What an amazing 2 week trip with the family. The tank did incredibly well; probably because I had a 4 year old watching it and followed my directions perfectly.

Welcome back! Glad to hear that your trip went well and that the tank was in great shape upon your return.
 
So aside from that being really cool to watch, now I'm really confused about what could be going on.

Again, definitely not a marine biologist here. But isn't the general rule of thumb that fish are much more tolerant of less-than-ideal chemistry than inverts? And your crabs are obviously not in acute distress.

So at this point, I'm way out of my league but does anyone think that maybe there's a problem with dissolved oxygen? Just trying to think of what could possibly take out two seemingly healthy fish so quickly but leave the hermit crabs happy and energetic. :headwallblue:

The thing is the tank looks good. Corals, crabs and snails all seem great. But I did lose the new fire shrimp that may have started the small ammonia spike. The blenny is the only other fish in the tank (he was added at the same time as the clowns) and he seems ok so far. He has moved around a few times as he feels out the territory. I also saw him nip at a hermit that got too close - the hermit went flying off the rock, which was also kind of funny.

I've thought about dissolved oxygen - but I can't see how that would suddenly become an issue. I have an MP10, the stock pump, and a skimmer running (with a refugium and chaeto hanging off the back being powered by another pump with a decent flow back into the second chamber of the main tank).
 
Well I am back. What an amazing 2 week trip with the family. The tank did incredibly well; probably because I had a 4 year old watching it and followed my directions perfectly.

Welcome new members, and glad everyone is switching to the sicce.. I having great success with it. Decided to slowly re-home my hermit crabs..just don't want to keep watching the birdsnets, montis and all the other that they like to nibble at. Just not worth it.

I am at a point where I feel the tank is running well on its own. Now I can sit back and enjoy it and think of what to do next

Glad that things went well while you were away. I've had my issues both times I went away for a few days. I need to find myself a good 4 year old to watch my tank....
 
Took a few minutes this afternoon and finished up the rigid tubing for the two-part dosing. I think I probably didn't leave enough slack in the flexible tubing coming out of the DOS to make the bend going over the top of the tank without straining. My fear was an eventual kink. So I ordered some RO tubing and connectors from BRS and used two 90 degree elbows to come over the top of the overflow area and down into the tube rack.

The only challenge was getting the Neptune DOS tubing over the barbed connector. I used a hairdryer to heat the flexible tubing and a pencil to enlarge the flexible tubing enough to get it started on the barbed connector. Then continued slowly applying heat and pushing the tubing farther up until I felt confident about the connection. I'll probably still order some plastic hose clamps, but I would be absolutely shocked if the flex tubing somehow managed to separate from the connector at this point.

cv4fCHVlBp2SxQCx0MzcZzkoNCX90BL4luOFP6pgHUkx=w511-h681-no


Those are inline check valves with the red flange. The barbed connector needed some sort of coupler to attach to the black 1/4" RO tubing, so I just picked up the check valves instead of standard couplers. The tubing going into the overflow area is well above the water line in the overflow area, so those check valves are probably not necessary. But if you're going to over-engineer something, then why not REALLY over-engineer it???

I9W0DS9oAbxjgFNGhYF__zqwYDE9LdwoCTSHMsLSlDeZ=w511-h681-no
 
Last edited:
Well I am back. What an amazing 2 week trip with the family. The tank did incredibly well; probably because I had a 4 year old watching it and followed my directions perfectly.

Welcome new members, and glad everyone is switching to the sicce.. I having great success with it. Decided to slowly re-home my hermit crabs..just don't want to keep watching the birdsnets, montis and all the other that they like to nibble at. Just not worth it.

I am at a point where I feel the tank is running well on its own. Now I can sit back and enjoy it and think of what to do next

Welcome back! Glad you had fun and the tank is ok. Catch up on your sleep and get to work..
 
The thing is the tank looks good. Corals, crabs and snails all seem great. But I did lose the new fire shrimp that may have started the small ammonia spike. The blenny is the only other fish in the tank (he was added at the same time as the clowns) and he seems ok so far. He has moved around a few times as he feels out the territory. I also saw him nip at a hermit that got too close - the hermit went flying off the rock, which was also kind of funny.

I've thought about dissolved oxygen - but I can't see how that would suddenly become an issue. I have an MP10, the stock pump, and a skimmer running (with a refugium and chaeto hanging off the back being powered by another pump with a decent flow back into the second chamber of the main tank).

So from what I've read and understand, I'm going back with the ammonia theory. A nitrate spike would most likely be tolerated by the life. I, along with other reefers prefer just a tiny bit of nitrates in my tank, the corals seem to like it and the fish don't appear to care. Ammonia otoh, is toxic to most. Some fish will tolerate small amounts, depending on the dissolved oxygen levels.
Thinking about your loss, there are two potential causes that probably interacted to cause the fatality. Fish were not 100% well. Treating for parasites will weaken their immune systems. The shrimp going south probably rotted a bit since the cuc didn't finish it off, which caused the rise in ammonia. The fish were added during this spike. And in their compromised condition, they perished.
Monday morning quarterback in me says better circ may have prevented this. The more water movement, the faster the recycle and better exchange of oxygen.
It sucks no matter the cause, but knowing why can help prevent it from reoocuring.
 
Someone in the preceding pages had a pic of a really well-organized Apex in their cabinet, mounting everything on a white board inside the cabin. Since I "pulled the trigger" on my very own Apex (and lots of other goodies), I am looking for pictures of well-organized and nicely mounted "gear" inside the cabinet for inspiration as I plan how to organize all the stuff the I have recently ordered from MD. It has to be done inside the cabinet as I have a soon to be one-year old and I am trying to contain everything.

So, may I impose on anyone who has a nicely organized and mounted system to please post some pictures of the handiwork as it would be, by me, much appreciated.

Many thanks in advance!
 
Someone in the preceding pages had a pic of a really well-organized Apex in their cabinet, mounting everything on a white board inside the cabin. Since I "pulled the trigger" on my very own Apex (and lots of other goodies), I am looking for pictures of well-organized and nicely mounted "gear" inside the cabinet for inspiration as I plan how to organize all the stuff the I have recently ordered from MD. It has to be done inside the cabinet as I have a soon to be one-year old and I am trying to contain everything.

So, may I impose on anyone who has a nicely organized and mounted system to please post some pictures of the handiwork as it would be, by me, much appreciated.

Many thanks in advance!


It sure isn't my current set up! Rats nest is an understatement!
 
Back
Top