Pairing Clownfish

[JHardman]

Here is another thread that shows an example of a successful pairing of an extremely aggressive female maroon. The keeper had a hard time, but with a little modification to the maroon separation technique, he was able to pair his fish.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201433

 

[waligorar]

So far, I've read a lot about breeding, but nothing about what happens next. So, you get a pair of Occelaris to mate and have 100 baby clowns. What next? It sounds like you can't keep them, because they will eventually start to fight. So I assume the only option is to sell them back to the fish store. What other options are there? Also, what do you feed them? Flake food, or do most people raise food?

 

[JHardman]

So far, I've read a lot about breeding, but nothing about what happens next. So, you get a pair of Occelaris to mate and have 100 baby clowns. What next? It sounds like you can't keep them, because they will eventually start to fight. So I assume the only option is to sell them back to the fish store. What other options are there? Also, what do you feed them? Flake food, or do most people raise food?

Your post would be most appropriate as a new thread. Would you report the question to the clownfish forum, and I will be glad to answer it. But it is off topic for this thread.

 

[yachtboy14]

hardmen you worte early that.........
In the short term yes it will work. In the long term, in a confined environment, it may result in problems. In the wild, clownfish form hierarchies with a mature breeding pair and lower ranking sexless fish. The lower ranking fish will try to promote themselves sooner or later. This is not a problem within the ranks of the sexless fish, however when a member of the breeding pair is challenged, the challenger will either succeed by driving off or killing it's rival, or it will fail in its challenge and be driven off or killed. And this is where it can become a problem in a confined tank environment, no place to be driven off to

but there are tanks that are combined together with a clear tube is it possb. to have a group of clowns in this type of tank where one of the fish could be run off to the other tank bc the groups terr. ends at the beg. of the tube

 

[kris4647]

I think what John is trying to say here is, this thread is meant to be informational in regards to general pairing issues/strategies with clownfish. It kinda muddies the waters if it grows to 10 pages of different questions regarding isolated or specific issues. Those questions are better posed in the general "anenomes and clownfish forum" as a seperate thread.

Not trying to dissuade anyone from joining this thread or being negative, just sharing an opinion. Having raised and paired many different types of clowns I can tell you it's one of the most rewarding, fascinating things I've ever done. Good Luck

 

[JHardman]

I think what John is trying to say here is, this thread is meant to be informational in regards to general pairing issues/strategies with clownfish. It kinda muddies the waters if it grows to 10 pages of different questions regarding isolated or specific issues. Those questions are better posed in the general "anenomes and clownfish forum" as a seperate thread.

Not trying to dissuade anyone from joining this thread or being negative, just sharing an opinion. Having raised and paired many different types of clowns I can tell you it's one of the most rewarding, fascinating things I've ever done. Good Luck

Ditto.

In fact the "quote" is from another FAQ post on mixing clowns.

Just so people know, I will not reply to "off topic" questions in these FAQ posts. The last thing we need is another ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œEverything you ever wanted to know about South Downââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ type of run on post here in the clownfish FAQ posts. Like Kris has suggested, these last couple of questions should have either been asked in the main forum as a new post or in the thread in which the question directly applies to.

 

[reef fanatic]

great post and educational too

 

[yachtboy14]

hardmen you still have not said anything about what I said

 

[JHardman]

hardmen you still have not said anything about what I said

That would be because it is off topic for this post and in fact from another FAQ post I made. If you would like an answer post it to the post your copied it from.

BTW, the name Hardman. If you are going to call me by my last name like some drill sargent yelling for a fool, at least get it right.

 

[jinnjia]

I am sorry, have a quick question here.
Can the female (maroon) turn into male ?
I should have read this great tread before I purchased the new maroon.

What happen is this, I have a single maroon in the tank, from the reading I understand she must be a female, but the problem is the new maroon I just got, is a little bigger and seems to be more dominating, so judging from this, will my old maroon eventually change its sex to male ? of course this is if they can get along together.

Thank you thank you~

 

[KillerReef]

I'm sorry to say it, and I may be wrong, but no, she will not turn into male, once female, there is no going back. The best hope for your situation is that your "old" maroon is not yet female and the normal pairing will develop. (hopefully)

Otherwise, I believe they will probably fight until death. I personally would remove the new clown and follow Jhardman's info on pairing maroon clowns to a "T"...

HTH

 

[jinnjia]

To : KillerReef

Got it !
Thanks for the clarification, although my old maroon is still yet pretty small, about 2 inches, but compare to the new maroon, her color is much darker, meaning she gotta be a she.

Will it be possible the new maroon will turn into a HE ?
But then again since the new one is bigger and a lot more dominant, I am guessing most likely that wont happen right ?

If that is the case, I will exchange the new one with a much smaller maroon if possible.

But for some reason, my old maroon was never aggresive and dominant, sometimes even the anemone crab would chase her out of the anemone, hahahaha, but by night time, they will sleep together.

Thanks again for all your great help !

 

[JHardman]

I am sorry, have a quick question here.
Can the female (maroon) turn into male ?
I should have read this great tread before I purchased the new maroon.

What happen is this, I have a single maroon in the tank, from the reading I understand she must be a female, but the problem is the new maroon I just got, is a little bigger and seems to be more dominating, so judging from this, will my old maroon eventually change its sex to male ? of course this is if they can get along together.

Thank you thank you~

As Oama mentioned on the same question in the sexing clownfish thread. No, it is a one way trip.

How big are the two fish in question? If they are both big, you will likely not have a successful pairing. You should consider taking one back and using the separation technique outlined above for pairing maroons.

 

[JHardman]

To : KillerReef

Got it !
Thanks for the clarification, although my old maroon is still yet pretty small, about 2 inches, but compare to the new maroon, her color is much darker, meaning she gotta be a she.

Will it be possible the new maroon will turn into a HE ?
But then again since the new one is bigger and a lot more dominant, I am guessing most likely that wont happen right ?

If that is the case, I will exchange the new one with a much smaller maroon if possible.

But for some reason, my old maroon was never aggresive and dominant, sometimes even the anemone crab would chase her out of the anemone, hahahaha, but by night time, they will sleep together.

Thanks again for all your great help !

It is almost unheard of to have a male maroon that is >2" so my guess is that both of your fish are female and will likely fight to the death.

You really need to have a female of about 3.5"+ to have an easy(ier) pairing with maroons. If the fish that intend to keep is only 2", you should consider growing her out to about 3.5" before trying a pairing.

 

[jinnjia]

Got it !!!
I think I will return the new maroon at earliest.

And now I am just wondering, and not sure if that this is common and true, notice most maroon which LFS carry, are always kept singly along in those dividers, I am guessing because maroons are much more aggressive compare to other clowns.

So now here is the question, if they were already kept single before I purchased them, meaning they should already turn into female ? and unlike other clowns, for some reason most maroons I seen from the LFS are already pretty big, so does it mean it may be pretty tough of find a sexless/male maroon from the LFS ?

To provide more detail, my old maroon is about 1 & 3/4 inch big, shy, had it for more than 6 month. The new maroon is about 2 inches big, brighter than than my old one, a lot more aggresive and dominant. I seen the new one chase the old one, but never really got into mouth biting.

Old one was already hosting a bulb anemone, and the new one seems to like the new anmoney I just got too.

Thanks always !!
:~)

 

[JHardman]

Got it !!!
I think I will return the new maroon at earliest.

And now I am just wondering, and not sure if that this is common and true, notice most maroon which LFS carry, are always kept singly along in those dividers, I am guessing because maroons are much more aggressive compare to other clowns.

So now here is the question, if they were already kept single before I purchased them, meaning they should already turn into female ? and unlike other clowns, for some reason most maroons I seen from the LFS are already pretty big, so does it mean it may be pretty tough of find a sexless/male maroon from the LFS ?

To provide more detail, my old maroon is about 1 & 3/4 inch big, shy, had it for more than 6 month. The new maroon is about 2 inches big, brighter than than my old one, a lot more aggresive and dominant. I seen the new one chase the old one, but never really got into mouth biting.

Old one was already hosting a bulb anemone, and the new one seems to like the new anmoney I just got too.

Thanks always !!
:~)

It is not common to keep juvenile CB maroons separated, however it is common to keep WC this way. I would recommend you get CB fish. With WC, you risk disease, parasites, poor acclimation, etc, etc and for pairing you have no idea of the fish's age.

Grow your current fish out to at least 3.5" and then find a CB juvenile that is about 3/4".

HTH

 

[maroun.c]

Hi, got 1 maroon and 2 clarckiis in the tank (and lots of questions)themaroon was the oldest one in the tank, i once found a small mate for her and she accceptes him rather easily using the separation technique, he got accepted only one day after introduction and was llowed to her sleeping place. after that the male got ich from a newlyintroduced fish and died in the Q tank with 2 other fish. i couldn't find a mate for her for 5-6 months so i got 2 small clarckis and introduced them to the tank with she in and she beated them for a week that they spent behind a powerhead fighting among themselves to place each other in front of her. after that they managed to get one part of the tank and a few months later dominated the maroon that was beaten, torned fins dominated to teh point where it stopped feeding....so i removed it to the Q tank. took a few months to recover and fatten up by that time i got a bubble tip for the clarcki and got 2 green crpets and a blue one from a friendtearingup his tank. so i thought that as now the clarcki had their own limited territory in the bta may be the maroon can be introduced i put him in. she recieved mino beating and ended taking a territory for her. then she hosted in the 2 green adn blue carpets that were at the edge of the tank. a little far from the bta but however they faced each other a few times a day and ended by limitting the territory. a few months after that the maroon is getting a bit more evil and even chases my big semicirculatus away from his anemones more aggressively than the clarcki pair do. also it took over the bta and seems to prefer it mostthan his carpets. the clarcki were chased of to the green carpet on the other edge of the tank and it's now piece as every one sticks to their territory that are well defended.
now my questions are:
the clarcki i got were at the smae size and smaller than an inch. now they are near 2 -2.5 inch and they haven't spawned yet. one of them showed clear dominance and was growing clearly bigger than the other for a year may be but now the smaller one has grown and they are the same size. is it necesary to have size difference always in the pair or will it resolve as both grow at the end? they sleep in the sam anemone and lately have been doing a strange thing they put their mouth on the rock near the anemone and always at 2 definit locations and they start swimming against the rock as if they are cleaning it, does that indicate anything to come? no fighting however one of them seems to show the other who's the boss from time to time but I never saw that locking mouth position you talke about previously.
do you thinkn it's apair and i should just wait for them to spawn?
Now my biggest issue lies in that i would like to have a mate for the maroon clown and here are my question:
should i quarantine the nwe addition for 4 weeks before addition to the tank or will it turn into a female if left that long in the Q tank?
i know i should get the smallest maroon i can find so if it's so small will it change sex if alone ow should it still be old enough to be able to change sex?
what also worries me as they are put in separate tanks at the lfs but i could always show aup at the day they recieve fish hoping that they are kept together prior to being shipped to us.
also if i get a really small one do you think it'l stand a chance in front of the clarcki pair?
Sorry lots of question but i wold really appreciate your help as i wouldn't want to risk fish if there is no acceptable chance that it could work

 

[JHardman]

should i quarantine the nwe addition for 4 weeks before addition to the tank or will it turn into a female if left that long in the Q tank?

I always recommend QT'ing new fish for 4-6 weeks.

i know i should get the smallest maroon i can find so if it's so small will it change sex if alone ow should it still be old enough to be able to change sex?

If you buy a CB fish that is 3/4" to 1 1/2" it will still be a juvenile that is too young to change sex.

what also worries me as they are put in separate tanks at the lfs but i could always show aup at the day they recieve fish hoping that they are kept together prior to being shipped to us.

The only time I see LFS keep maroons separate is if they are selling WC stockââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ Buy CB (captive bred) fish and you will not have a worry. If you are buying WC (wild caught) fish, that little 1 Ã"šÃ‚½Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚ maroon could be 20 years old and wipe a sex change fastââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦

also if i get a really small one do you think it'l stand a chance in front of the clarcki pair?

Read this... http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=245520&highlight=mixing+species

Sorry lots of question but i wold really appreciate your help as i wouldn't want to risk fish if there is no acceptable chance that it could work

From the sounds of it, you are already seeing the fighting between the maroon female and the A. clarkii pair turn for the worse. Frankly it is unlikely that you will be able to keep both pairs in the same tank.

And no the digging is not related to spawning per say, even though some of the old reference books say that it is. Prespawning behavior is for both fish to vigorously ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œcleanââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ their nest site by biting it. At 2 Ã"šÃ‚½Ã¢â"šÂ¬Ã‚ your pair is likely too young to spawn. A mature spawning A. clarkii female will generally be 3ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ to 4.5ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚.

 

[Anguila]

A few questions for JHardman

A few questions for JHardman

First of all, thank you for all the fascinating information, JHardman. I appreciate that you have taken the time to share your knowledge with us. Second of all, I apologize if you have answered these questions before. I only ask them because I have not seen the answers to them in any of your stickeyed threads or their links.

Q#1: I have a Tomato clown approx. 2-2.5 in. long. I have had her(?) for about a month now, and I have seen her change to a much darker hue in the short time that I have had her. If I introduce a much smaller, asexual Tomato clown what are the chances that she will kill it/him? Is it ideal to put a devider in the tank for a certain period of time?

Q#2: Is their an ideal temperature to stimulate breeding for clowns? I have bred freshwater cichlids before, and when I did this I raised the temp. from 78 to 88-90 to stimulate the breeding process. Currently the temp. in my marine tank is 74-75.

Q3#: Is their an ideal salinity level for breeding clowns? Right now I am at about 21.

Q#4: I have a hermit crab in my tank. Would it be possible for him to consume a large portion of the eggs in the eventually of the mating process taking place? I wouldn't remove him if he only ate a few/or none, but I wouldn't want to see him kill all of them.

Q#5: Is their an ideal diet for breeding clownfish in terms of the quantity/quality? Right now I feed my fish once a day, Formula 1, and Formula 2, respectively every other day.

Thank you for your time.

-Andrew

 

[JHardman]

Re: A few questions for JHardman

Re: A few questions for JHardman

First of all, thank you for all the fascinating information, JHardman. I appreciate that you have taken the time to share your knowledge with us. Second of all, I apologize if you have answered these questions before. I only ask them because I have not seen the answers to them in any of your stickeyed threads or their links.

Q#1: I have a Tomato clown approx. 2-2.5 in. long. I have had her(?) for about a month now, and I have seen her change to a much darker hue in the short time that I have had her. If I introduce a much smaller, asexual Tomato clown what are the chances that she will kill it/him? Is it ideal to put a devider in the tank for a certain period of time?

Q#2: Is their an ideal temperature to stimulate breeding for clowns? I have bred freshwater cichlids before, and when I did this I raised the temp. from 78 to 88-90 to stimulate the breeding process. Right now the temp. in my marine tank is 74-75.

Q3#: Is their an ideal salinity level for breeding clowns? Right now I am at about 21.

Q#4: I have a hermit crab in my tank. Would it be possible for him to consume a large portion of the fry in the eventually of the mating process taking place? I wouldn't remove him if he only ate a few/or none, but I wouldn't want to see him kill all of them.


Thank you for your time.

-Andrew

Hi and welcome to RC!

#1, At that size, it is more likely that your fish is female. And yes adding a sexless juvenile from a community tank would be the way to go. A. frenatus can be nearly as hard to pair as maroons and you might have to take a separation approach to the pairing if the your female is really nasty. But you should be able to get by with a grow out technique.

2-4 are a off topic to this post, so I will keep my answers short and direct you to more information.

#2, Tropical species like your A. frenatus will do best for spawning at between 80Ã"šÃ‚°F and about 84Ã"šÃ‚°F.

#3, Salinity should be close to the salinity of there range in high summer, for most species this is SG 1.025 to SG 1.027

#4, You would not leave the nest in the tank to hatch, as the larva would become zooplankton for anything in the tank.

Myself and Dr. Marini wrote an couple of articles for http://www.advancedaquarist.com that will start to run in this months issues. You will find much more detailed information in these articles, especially in relation to #2-#4.