Pairing Clownfish
- Thread starter JHardman
- Start date
jgoelz
New member
Success!!!
I let the little guy out of isolation the night before last and he is still alive. He just follows the big female around like a little puppy. She looks to have accepted him ( or at least will tolerate him). No aggressive behavior at all from her. Let's wait and see if they form a mating pair. Thanks for the input.
I let the little guy out of isolation the night before last and he is still alive. He just follows the big female around like a little puppy. She looks to have accepted him ( or at least will tolerate him). No aggressive behavior at all from her. Let's wait and see if they form a mating pair. Thanks for the input.Yet another GS Maroon pairing question. I have a female that has been with me for offer 5 years in a 29 gallon tank. She is over 3" nose to tail. I have recently set up a 55 gallon that she will be moved into and would like to pair her up in the process. So here are my 2 choices:
a) Purchase a small clown and add him to the new tank first, let him get settled a little (only a few days), and then introduce the female, probably in a container.
or
b) Add the female first and let her get settled, and then go through the normal "adding a male to an established female" routine, as described above.
I would like to try a), as I would like the female to be the last fish added to the new tank, but if b) is more likely to result in succes, than I will take that route.
Thanks,
Mark
a) Purchase a small clown and add him to the new tank first, let him get settled a little (only a few days), and then introduce the female, probably in a container.
or
b) Add the female first and let her get settled, and then go through the normal "adding a male to an established female" routine, as described above.
I would like to try a), as I would like the female to be the last fish added to the new tank, but if b) is more likely to result in succes, than I will take that route.
Thanks,
Mark
JHardman
Premium Member
MLudl said:
You will have a much higher likelihood of success with adding the female first, giving her a few weeks to settle in, then adding a small juvenile of about 3/4" but no greater than 1.5".
Here is why... A maroon will defend it's territory and a maroon entering a new territory will be more likely to be submissive. So if you were to add the small juvenile first, it would claim territory and defend it from the larger female which is exactly what you do not want to happen.
Hi, i am having trouble pairing two clowns b/c i think they are different species and are the same size. I belive one is supposedly a true percula while the other is a false (oscellaris). I had the oscellaris in the tank for about 2 weeks before i added the second true percula. Now the oscellaris is bossing the new percula around whenever they near eachother. I notice that once in a while they approach and have epileptic seizures, as you have mentioned. Other times, they have no association with eachother.
But one promising thing is that they both sleep at the same spot with eachother (the top corner of the tank).
Also, would you know why they wouldn't' be hosting my condy lactis, bubble tip anemone, or hairy mushroom? I've had all of them in there for about 3 weeks now. My tank is a 20 gallon with a seaclone skimmer and 160 watt PC lighting.
If you could help at all, that would be great, thankyou
-Tony
But one promising thing is that they both sleep at the same spot with eachother (the top corner of the tank).
Also, would you know why they wouldn't' be hosting my condy lactis, bubble tip anemone, or hairy mushroom? I've had all of them in there for about 3 weeks now. My tank is a 20 gallon with a seaclone skimmer and 160 watt PC lighting.
If you could help at all, that would be great, thankyou
-Tony
JHardman
Premium Member
DominOE said:
Give them some time. It doesn't sound like they have been in the tank very long, and that is likely why they are sleeping on the surface.
If you do not have a good dominate submissive relationship forming in a couple of weeks, you might consider taking on of the fish back for a smaller fish of the same species. With non aggressive species like A. ocellaris and A. percula the grow out technique with one larger and one smaller fish, has the best likelihood of success. But can take a couple weeks for the relationship to really show.
You might want to ask about the host(s) in a separate post so we do not get too off topic in this already long post.
BLUESMAN said:
It is VERY unlikely that both are female. Two females in the same tank 999 times out a 1000 will fight, typically ending in jaw locking.
Without knowing the size and species of the fish, there is no way to know if the fish are even old/big enough to change sex. In new pairings, the first and foremost thing to happen is a dominate submissive relationship is established. Sex change will not start to happen until this relationship is worked out and only if the fish are physically mature.
Thankyou for the info.
I take that back, i've had BOTh the clowns in the tank for about a month now.
How long does it take for a sex change and at what is is physically mature and how long would it take according to my fishs' sizes? If it is going to take too longk, as you said, i will return one for a smaller one.
Here is the pic.
http://www.angelfire.com/ex/s2k-racer/2clowns.JPG
I take that back, i've had BOTh the clowns in the tank for about a month now.
How long does it take for a sex change and at what is is physically mature and how long would it take according to my fishs' sizes? If it is going to take too longk, as you said, i will return one for a smaller one.
Here is the pic.
http://www.angelfire.com/ex/s2k-racer/2clowns.JPG
JHardman
Premium Member
DominOE said:
From the looks in the picture those are two juveniles about 6-9 months old, likely CB fish from ORA. Both are A. ocellaris, common name "false percula".
A. ocellaris are physically mature between 12 and 18 months old. Once they are physically mature the sex change can happen in as little as a month.
Considering the likely age/size of the fish, I would just let them be. Being as young as they are, it will take a few months before they are a solid pair. As long as their fighting doesn't cause any heavy damage (missing chunks of fin for example), just leave them be to work it out.
ezhoops
New member
just introduced a white stripe Maroon to my GSM female, first try wasn't too bad, a little chasing and biting. The male is shivering to her but she could care less. I know that a White and Gold Maroon are the same species /so they will mate if everything goes according to plan right? I have read that they would be just checking. I hope that everything works, cause I hate to have to cycle through a bunch of males. Can you just try the same male fish a couple weeks after the intial try?
JHardman
Premium Member
ezhoops said:
Yes they are the same species and are quite capable of pairing and spawning.
If you reread this post for submissive and dominate behavior you will know that the main thing after the smaller fish has submitted is for the female to recognize this and stop her attacks short.
You are underestimating these fish if you think that the female will not recognize the same juvenile/male a couple of weeks later. Clownfish are very visual fish with long memories.
Remember you are forming a bonded pair relationship and both fish have to accept each other. Try (3) times over the course of 3 to 5 days. IME if you do not have a pairing after (3) tries, you never will. Sure you can try a couple of more times and get lucky, but the odds of a successful pairing goes down with each failed attempt.
Something that you do not mention is if the fish you are trying to introduce is WC or CB. It makes me wonder because the fish from your description already has it's gold bars. If it has all of itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s bars gold it is physically mature and might well have started to change sex already. A physically mature fish can change sex in a month, which if the fish was WC could well be about how long it has been more or less along and having all the clues to change sex and is doing so.
This is the primary reason I recommend pairing with small CB juveniles from a community tank, where you are almost assured of getting a sexless juvenile, not to mention that all new fish should be QTââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ed for 4-6 weeks to insure you are not introducing diseases and parasites into your healthy fish population, which means if you are buying a WC fish that is physically mature (many are), it will likely be a female by the time you are done with QT.
ezhoops
New member
they are both WC, the female is the GSM with gold coloring, the male is a small White stripe. I guess I did under estimate them. If this male doesn't work, often soon till I can try another and what should I look for in another male? I hate this I feel like I'm torturing my male maroon?
ezhoops
New member
I know this sounds lame but my the person I get my clowns from q't all clownfish 10 days before he sells them. He uses Meth blue. something like that. Do you know of somewhere I could get a 3/4 maroon white or gold? My LFS doesn't carry them, I got the female from tropicorium, I could try their again.
JHardman
Premium Member
ezhoops said:
Ten days is not long enough for a QT, 4 weeks minimum, 6 weeks recommended. Sorry but all ten days is going to do is let the fish in poor shape die in private. There are a lot of things one can use in a prophylactic treatment method to treat new WC/CB clownfish, but metholine (sp) blue is not one that I would use. Formalin, malachite green, pipzine, yes. I commend him/her for the effort, but frankly it is not enough to insure that new fish are not infected/infested.
You can get CB maroons from any LFS, if they are willing to order them. ORA carries GSM and WSM at a minimum of 1", just ask your LFS to order them (small size), then pick up the fish before they put it in their tanks and you will not need to QT the new fish, as ORA (or any other breeder worth a hoot) does not ship diseased or parasite infested fish.
ezhoops
New member
That is where I bought the female from. She is a beautiful creature. I haven't checked with them in a while but the usually only have 3-4 inch GSM, unless you buy a pair, they will not separate a pair, thinking that now I should have just bought a pair in the first place. by time I find a suitable male and spend a billion dollars buying and trading all the failures out I could have bought 2 pair of GSM's. I'll give them a call in the morning.
Thanks
P.s. Maybe I'll get lucky and they will get along tomorrow. I'm giving it till wednesday. Cause then I will not be at school for the holiday and I don't want to leave the little guy in the specimen container over the break.
JHardman, Thanks for the reply. I will introduce all of my other fish first, and then the female GSM, and then start looking for a suitable mate.
I do have one more question concerning the timing of sex changes. From your multiple replies above, it seems that age is the determining factor concerning when they can begin to change sex, is this true? I ask because I sometimes see small (less than 1" nose to tail) GSM clowns with their stripes already a bright yellow color. I think you mentioned that these are probably WC, and could be 10 years old already. I assume this means they can change sex pretty quickly, even though they are only 1" long. Thanks again for this very informative thread!
Mark
PS: my local fish store says they do not like to carry captive bred clowns because there is a very high incedence of deformaties like flat faces and misbarring, caused by inbreeding. Is there any truth to this?
I do have one more question concerning the timing of sex changes. From your multiple replies above, it seems that age is the determining factor concerning when they can begin to change sex, is this true? I ask because I sometimes see small (less than 1" nose to tail) GSM clowns with their stripes already a bright yellow color. I think you mentioned that these are probably WC, and could be 10 years old already. I assume this means they can change sex pretty quickly, even though they are only 1" long. Thanks again for this very informative thread!
Mark
PS: my local fish store says they do not like to carry captive bred clowns because there is a very high incedence of deformaties like flat faces and misbarring, caused by inbreeding. Is there any truth to this?
JHardman
Premium Member
MLudl said:
You got it. There are two requirements for a sex change, first is being physically mature, which is strictly an age based thing. With clownfish, depending on species physical maturity is reached between 12-24 months. Second are the environmental factors of dominance.
So it is quite possible to have a 3/4" clownfish that is 30 years old and sexless, as it has spent it's entire life in a hierarchy and never been in a position to be sexual.
A physically mature clownfish can change sex in a month. This was documented by Joyce Wilkerson in her early days of breeding when she separated a pair to ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œgive them a breakââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ only to find she had two female instead of a male and female.
MLudl said:
Not Mark, but I will put in my $0.02 on this one. This is a typical cry of a LFS that doesn't want to spend the extra money for CB clownfish. There is some truth to the statement, but by in large it is a false statement. Any breeder worth their salt culls deformed fish and never sells them. And many do offer mis barred clownfish, but as a separate, graded product, at a different price, generally less, sometimes more based on consumer demand. So when you hear a statement like that, it is either based on misinformation and lack of experience or flat out greed as CB clownfish run about twice as much as the same WC fish, allowing the LFS to make more money. I have nothing against an LFS making money, if they didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t they wouldnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t be there to serve our needs, but putting BS like that state out there I do have a problem with, it is at best misinformation and ignorance and at worst a flat out lie to make more money.
To the general question of rather there are more mis bars, deformities in CB clownfish versus WC clownfish is one that is not likely to be solved. But one can make a logical argument that the rates are the same in CB fish as WC fish. For example, a fish with a deform jaw... In a CB environment that fish will likely be able to survive to a large size, while in the wild it will likely become food for something else or starve. Keep in mind that just because you do not see as many WC fish with mis barring and/or deformities, doesn't mean there were not a lot that were hatched out, but simply did not make it to ever be caught for sale to you.
