Pale, Brown and Sad - what's my gameplan?

[timdanger]

Hi Gary - thanks for the reply.

I do agree that the stability should, ideally, help. I've had a few hiccups (e.g. Apex is programmed so that doser pumps were set to dose for 20 straight minutes, but turn off if pH ever went above 8.35 -- dosing caused my pH to jump up fairly quickly, so the Apex would end up turning off the pumps for like half the dosing period. luckily found this before something bad happened). but, overall, i think there has been an improvement in stability.

As far as GFO goes, I do run GFO and carbon in a dual media reactor from BRS. I am using SmartReef granular GFO from TBAquatics. I got one of those small Hanna colorimeters for phosphate testing a couple weeks ago. I did 3 tests, each of which read 0.00 for phosphate (which I feel like is even lower than I would want.

I do have a few spots of algae in the display, but my turbo snails are keeping it reasonably controlled to where it isn't really an eyesore. the sump still gets some cotton candy algae buildup in it.

unfortunately, i don't think there's been much in the way of color improvement in the SPS.

i've got an updated FTS on my home computer, but I haven't uploaded it yet. I'll try and do that later.

 

[gary faulkner]

From everything I have ever read, your corals should color up over time with the readings and stability that you now have. If they don't I don't know what to say. I have been having some of the same problems as you but mine started when I moved to my latest large tank and had an almost complete crash. I'm working now on getting everything back up to par.

Hope you see much improvement soon.

 

[timdanger]

updated FTS... still working on it. i'm going back to feeding more.

 

[DopeCantWin]

updated FTS... still working on it. i'm going back to feeding more.

Looks great. I'm tempted to do the same thing you've done, post all attributes and let people critique. I'm having many of the same problems.

 

[ChicagoReefOne]

Compare that to how it used to look though:

I think there's definitely an improvement here, even if there may be a ways to go. SPS don't color up quickly, at least IME.

 

[tankaddict]

Tagging along. It looks like your sps is coloring up nicely. I have the same problem as you, some of my acro are coloring up while some got a bit brown. I thought I had low nutrient but just like you I have algae. there is a purplish short hair like algae on my sand bed. also lots of white fuzz hair like algae on my power head and rocks. It only seem to come if the rocks and PH are expose to air after a WC. my chaeto has stop growing and melting away. this all seem to gotten worse after adding chemi pure elite, which has GFO in it. I have also 0 nitrate and phosphate, now I have some light green slime algae again. this could be just due to over feeding my mandarin for the last month. I cut back to half a cube of mysis a day.

 

[timdanger]

Compare that to how it used to look though:


I think there's definitely an improvement here, even if there may be a ways to go. SPS don't color up quickly, at least IME.

Well, that's a fair point. Some of that is that I've gotten a little better with my camera (and purchased a new lens), and i've discovered "white balance correction" in post-processing, but... you are right, it has definitely gotten better. that last picture was about 6 months ago.

having said that, i was still hoping for a bit more color by now. because i haven't gotten that color, i've been fretting over whether i have enough flow (mp10 on 100% reef crest + modded tunze 6025), whether i have enough light (150w radium + 2 ATI Blue Plus T5s), etc., to get the colors i want.

 

[timdanger]

Looks great. I'm tempted to do the same thing you've done, post all attributes and let people critique. I'm having many of the same problems.

can't hurt! always nice to have people help you think of the things you don't know to think of.

 

[timdanger]

so, as things have plateaued in terms of improvement, i've been thinking -- is my 150w 20k radium halide + 2x24 T5HO ATI Blue+ not enough light?

is my mp10 at 100% reef crest + modded tunze 6025 not enough flow?

 

[sahin]

so, as things have plateaued in terms of improvement, i've been thinking -- is my 150w 20k radium halide + 2x24 T5HO ATI Blue+ not enough light?

is my mp10 at 100% reef crest + modded tunze 6025 not enough flow?

IMHO it is your light that is lacking. In my last tank I had a 150w halide over a nanocube. The tank is small and was fairly shallow (with most SPS placed halfway down).

I tried everything to get my corals to colour up like the beautiful shots you always see in the SPS forum. Whilst there was some improvement, it wasnt the improvement I craved for.

Now, having placed the same corals in my new tank under my custom modded ATI Sunpower T5 + LED lighting, the same corals started to colour up within days of being in the new tank under the new lighting.

I dont think the 150w halides have what it takes to colour up SPS that well. They may work for some poeple, but overall the results have been lacking for most. I make this statement based on reading threads on US and UK forums. I frequent many forums and have personal experiance of using the following lighting systems over the past 10 years:

1. T8
2. T5 - was among the first in UK to use T5's - they were only retrofits
3. 150w halide
4. 250w halide
5. Newer generation T5 ie ATI etc
6. Cree LED

For you, I'd say get a 6x24watt T5 light unit or a 250w halide. I am not sure of the brand etc that are available in the USA for halides, but for T5 look at ATI if possible.

 

[sahin]

Wanted to add that my new tank isnt nowwhere near the low nutrient level of my last nano tank. I am pretty sure that once I get nutrients down to the level that my last tank was, corals colours are going to be very nice.

 

[timdanger]

random update with some thoughts (since it's been enough months for plans to show whatever effect they're going to have).

most everything is still about the same level of paleness that it has been since my February FTS. Some more growth.

But, I changed my lighting. now running a 250w coralvue reeflux 20k halide on a galaxy select-a-watt ballast and a lumenmax elite reflector (currently about 14-16" above the water line). despite my very concerted efforts to not photoshock the corals as I was introducing the new lighting, i did manage to bleach the green slimer pretty badly. this was probably 4 months ago now, and it really hasn't recovered, but it hasn't gotten worse, either. with the new light, growth improved, i got some blue tips on the growth tips of one of my prostrata corals, and that's about it.

i also bought a spectrapure maxcap RO/DI unit, so i'm making my own water now.

i moved my mp10 from the back wall of the tank to the left side wall.

i added a yellow tang back in april, bringing the total to 5.

i've increased my feeding to just about every day (mixing between frozen mysis and new life spectrum marine-a pellets). skimming very dry. still measuring 0.00 phosphates on my hanna meter. still have small amounts of nuisance algae (cotton candy variety) growing on the rock with my GSP.

here are some other thoughts i've been having:
-i have a bunch of pyram snails in my tank, and i have for many months now. i don't have any claims, and i don't have any turbos (other than baby turbos created by past turbos), so i have no idea how they got there or what they are eating. i used to see them on my turbos, but i don't have any snails anymore other than a couple of nerites and a bumblebee. are the pyrams a problem for the corals? i never see them on the corals -- they are usually just on the live rock/sand bed. how do i get rid of them? i already have a flasher wrasse in the tank, and i'm scared of the 6 line. i'm somewhat scared of a green coris, as well, because i have two ornamental shrimp (cleaner, peppermint).

-i have some tiny limpets that came in as hitchhikers. not sure what type. my initial reaciton was, if they are keyhole limpets, maybe they are bothering my SPS. however, i don't see any flesh loss on the SPS, just bad color.

-i have a bumblebee snail that is about 4 years old and is a holdover from a previous tank. he probably needs to go (between him and my flasher wrasse, i hardly ever see any pods swimming around anymore), but could he be causing problems?

-for a long time now, my sand tends to get bound up (by bacteria?) such that it forms hard rocky masses. i imagine it's not being sifted enough now that i don't have a jawfish. but, i also wonder what this means ecologically is happening in the tank. these rocky masses can be broken up if i crush them between my fingers (not necessarily easily, but it can be done).

-i don't see much in the way of pods in my fuge. should i consider seeding it with a thin layer of new live sand, new algae, etc.?

 

[timdanger]

maybe pictures would help elicit some responses?!

FTS

ATL Idaho Grape Cap and Bali Green Slimer (photoshock victim -- a lot of white still on this guy, even months later -- but, the polyps are still there, though they are not well-extended)

and some of its neighbors, the blue-polyped green cap (ugh), the ATL Ocean Blue Papilla, and a blue staghorn acro

ATL Blueberry-tipped Raspberry Prostrata (actually showing a little bit of blue on the tips.... but the color just sucks)

orange digitata, ATL Pink Flamingo Selago Acro, and others...

Aquaholics Tommyknockers -- grows really fast, neat fluorescent green polyps, but.... not exactly getting the color i want here

note, this coral is advertised by Aquaholics like this (shows just how far away i am still.. depressing):

pink cap (my best colored coral by far), ORA Red Planet (uuuuugh, just terrible color here -- i don't get the shaggy polyps on this guy, either. it's growing, but mostly just basing out)

another shot of the ATL Pink Flamingo Selago (left) next to a pink millipora

 

[timdanger]

this yellow tang has been behaving and eating well for 6 months now

some kind of blue acro -- bottlebrush? anyway, it came to me browned out, and now it's pale, but it's a very nice blue on its growth tips. i have hopes for this one.

orange digitata... lousy polyp extension.

purple digitata (left)... another photoshock victim, but grows very fast still. shown next to the ATL blueberry-tipped raspberry prostrata

Side shot of the tank...

blue staghorn acro

ATL Pink Flamingo Selago... not very pink. i think it might have suffered a bit of a setback with the new light in terms of color. it's pretty pale these days.

So... who's got comments/suggestions?

 

[RRaider]

I'm going to go against the grain here a bit. I had the same issue in my 29 and it followed me to my 156. I'm just now getting things to color up and it's a result of switching to Rod's food and feeding more. I skim heavily and do water changes. My algae is growing a bit more both in my sump and in the tank but my corals are looking much better and for that matter so are my fish. I think it's a balancing act of keeping enough nutrients in the water without letting your nitrates and phosphates build up. ymmv.

 

[timdanger]

I'm going to go against the grain here a bit. I had the same issue in my 29 and it followed me to my 156. I'm just now getting things to color up and it's a result of switching to Rod's food and feeding more. I skim heavily and do water changes. My algae is growing a bit more both in my sump and in the tank but my corals are looking much better and for that matter so are my fish. I think it's a balancing act of keeping enough nutrients in the water without letting your nitrates and phosphates build up. ymmv.

not a bad theory. it feels counterintuitive to feed more when you have some algae growth (again, mine is fairly contained at this point), but I've tried just about everything I can think to try.

 

[timdanger]

gah. things just aren't going my way.

This ATL Ocean Blue Papillare Acro on the far left here had begun to STN. I tried cutting away at it a little bit to get the dead parts off, hoping it would regrow over the dead skeleton (as it had done twice in the past), but it didn't work. Then, I tried to do a last-ditch salvage last night by removing that whole rock from the water, supergluing over the dead parts and trying to break a line between the living flesh and dead skeleton using bone cutters, but it was pretty much skeleton this morning except for some small patches of flesh on the encrusted base.

What do I do with it at this point? I've cut off just about everything I could have at this point other than the base of the coral that's encrusted on the rock. I don't want to kill anything else in the process of trying to remove the encrusted skeleton from the rock it's on. What do you do with the encrusted skeleton of an SPS once it's dead?

i should also note that i've had small tissue loss on a few other corals (the blue stag right in front of it being the worst victim of that -- i've had to frag off a couple pieces of it where there was bare skeleton).

as of saturday, my nitrates were 0 (per API) and my phosphates were 0.04 per my hanna meter (first time i've ever actually seen phosphates register - I added a yellow coris wrasse about 6 weeks ago and have been feeding more and changing less water, but when things started going south, i cut back the feeding and went back to 5g weekly water changes).

 

[rigleautomotive]

gah. things just aren't going my way.

This ATL Ocean Blue Papillare Acro on the far left here had begun to STN. I tried cutting away at it a little bit to get the dead parts off, hoping it would regrow over the dead skeleton (as it had done twice in the past), but it didn't work. Then, I tried to do a last-ditch salvage last night by removing that whole rock from the water, supergluing over the dead parts and trying to break a line between the living flesh and dead skeleton using bone cutters, but it was pretty much skeleton this morning except for some small patches of flesh on the encrusted base.

What do I do with it at this point? I've cut off just about everything I could have at this point other than the base of the coral that's encrusted on the rock. I don't want to kill anything else in the process of trying to remove the encrusted skeleton from the rock it's on. What do you do with the encrusted skeleton of an SPS once it's dead?

i should also note that i've had small tissue loss on a few other corals (the blue stag right in front of it being the worst victim of that -- i've had to frag off a couple pieces of it where there was bare skeleton).

as of saturday, my nitrates were 0 (per API) and my phosphates were 0.04 per my hanna meter (first time i've ever actually seen phosphates register - I added a yellow coris wrasse about 6 weeks ago and have been feeding more and changing less water, but when things started going south, i cut back the feeding and went back to 5g weekly water changes).

Are you using GFO or have you used Bacteria dosing to control P and N in the past or presently ?? Sorry if you had mentioned in previous posts but I am trying to offer an opinion without catching up on the whole thread.

 

[timdanger]

I use gfo from tbaquatics and rox 0.8 carbon from BRS in a dual media reactor from BRS. I Use about 21 tsp of eeach, changing fairly infrequently.

 

[ChicagoReefOne]

To answer the STN question, I would definitely leave the encrusted skeleton on the rock, nothing good can come of trying to get it off, just leave it and perhaps some day a year from now or so it will start up again.

How high are your lights off your tank? Perhaps that's a factor. I do have to disagree with the statement that 150W MH can't get it done, they work on my tank and even better on some other member's tanks (ha).

I wouldn't hold your breath on the tommyknockers, there's a lot of debate about how that one colors up. Only gets the black tips in ULNS I hear.

Bummer that there isn't any improvement, been following this for a long time