Par 38 LED spotlights

[KafudaFish]

I posted a question in the nano section but found this thread again.

Does hanging the lights so high up bother anyone?

I am trying to decide how to light either a 20H or a 25 18 inch cube for sps and a clam.

I like everything these have to offer except the height off the water.

I plan on having the tank near the tv and really don't want to be sitting down and getting blinded because of this.

 

[Kisame]

With the optics on the Ecoxotics (40 degree?), the light goes straight down and there is negligible spill outside of the tank. I have one bulb 11 inches off of the water and angled towards the front of the tank. I can see all five leds but the light is focused so tightly downward that they seem dim from the side.

By comparison, the LEDs on my laptop and PS3 are far and away more distracting when I am watching something in the dark!

 

[Trevenator]

I posted a question in the nano section but found this thread again.

Does hanging the lights so high up bother anyone?

I am trying to decide how to light either a 20H or a 25 18 inch cube for sps and a clam.

I like everything these have to offer except the height off the water.

I plan on having the tank near the tv and really don't want to be sitting down and getting blinded because of this.

I have a nano-tuners 20k with 60 deg optics 13" off the water and i can look up at it without geting blinded.
The optics do a great job at directing the light down without much spill.

 

[sonofgaladriel]

Need some advice.
Tank: 24"x24"x14", SPS, lots of negative space, 3 islands of very low rockscape (2" to 3" high at most) evenly spaced apart. SPS frags to populate the tank. Most planted on the rocks, some directly on the sand.
Questions:
How many (or how few to help save cost) spot lights to cover the tank evenly? One over each island?
12K or all blue? ratio?
Optics?
I would like to keep the lights about 10 to 12" above the tank, maybe close if possible to avoid too much light spread that may interfere with TV/Movie viewing.
Thank you all for your input and suggestions.
Sean

 

[Original Fin]

Dimmable Par 38 LED

Dimmable Par 38 LED

Are any of the par38 bulbs dimable?

This one is 3000k in color, so probably not what you're looking for, but it is dimmable, and it's also got flood optics. Snapped this pic yesterday at my local Lowes...on sale for $55. I was interested in it for macro lighting in my fuge, and if that went well, possible an ATS lighting source down the road.

Not sure how new of a product this is. Anyone using these bulbs for anything? BTW, in the pic it's sitting in a the wrong display tray marked as a 50W (bottom), but this one is the 75W...actual consumption is only 18W, but it's supposed to be comparable to a 75. I wonder how they come to that?

 

[sammy33]

PPFD Readings for the Ecoxotic PAR38 12k LED
These are the PPFD (Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density) readings with the LED at 12" above the tank using my Apogee Instruments QMSS-ELEC1499 Quantum Meter.

Center bottom sandbed directly under the bulb (~22")

Side bottom sandbed ~7" off center (~22")

Side middle reef ~3" off center (~18")

Top of the reef ~1" off center (~15")

PPFD from the front so you can get an idea of the spread. The top reading was taken just under the water surface in the center.

This is a newly setup aquarium so I have not placed any corals in the tank yet. I have seen this light over some other tanks and the coral colors look very nice under this light. The light is very crisp looking and high contrast not unlike a metal halide. I like it!

The crispness of the LED light takes a bit of getting used to. The best comparison I can make is back in the 80's when I was switching over from listening to records (LP/vinyl) to Compact Discs. The CD's had incredible audio quality, no noise, no record scratch-pop-needle friction...the sound was just incredibly clean. It took some getting used to.

Some extreme audiophiles observed that the old school vinyl records had a musical warmth that CD's lacked. I think this was simply the difference between the analog LP medium and the digital CD medium. The audiophiles would say that CD's sounded "synthetic".

I think is similar to what some aquarium hobbyists are reporting with LED lighting systems. I have seen where hobbyists say "LED's are lacking something that metal halide systems an/or T5's have". I think is the extra crisp light that I am seeing from the LED systems almost appearing synthetic compared to say T5's or other linear fluorescent lighting.

This may be a good reason to try a hybrid lighting system with PAR38 LED's and T5's! :thumbsup:

I think the PAR38's are a good option for LED lighting on reef tanks. With so many variations becoming available from the various LED companies with different color spectrums and optics for spread you can mix and match mutliple bulbs. This allows you to "tune" the light to some extent. The controllability of other LED lighting like the AI and Vertex units is about the only thing I think I will miss. LED's are still not cheap!

Here is my Aquapod 12g nano reef setup showing the Ecoxotic PAR38 LED for reference.

 

[nenna]

Would using one of these spotlights work well in a large tank, lit with MH and T5s, that needs some extra light in a lower lit area? or would it make it look too uneven?

 

[KafudaFish]

I have a nano-tuners 20k with 60 deg optics 13" off the water and i can look up at it without geting blinded.
The optics do a great job at directing the light down without much spill.

Ok thank you for that info.

 

[sonofgaladriel]

Need some advice.
Tank: 24"x24"x14", SPS, lots of negative space, 3 islands of very low rockscape (2" to 3" high at most) evenly spaced apart. SPS frags to populate the tank. Most planted on the rocks, some directly on the sand.
Questions:
How many (or how few to help save cost) spot lights to cover the tank evenly? One over each island?
12K or all blue? ratio?
Optics?
I would like to keep the lights about 10 to 12" above the tank, maybe close if possible to avoid too much light spread that may interfere with TV/Movie viewing.
Thank you all for your input and suggestions.
Sean

Trying again :thumbsup:

 

[sammy33]

@sonofgaladriel
I think the 12K 40 degree optics is a good choice for SPS. The 40 degree optics have the best PPFD values. I have my bulb about 12" above the tank and it just covers a 12x12 section with great PPFD in the very center.

I placed the lamp over my other reef tank last (mostly SPS) night just to see what the coloration looks like. The color from the 12K Ecoxotic PAR38 was incredible! Currently running T5's on that tank but I think I might switch it over to LED's!

You would have 4 12x12 sections in your 24x24 footprint tank. I would start with two bulbs and maybe work up to 4 total. If you just have 3 islands you may be able to use just three bulbs and create that dramatic light effect I have seen in some of the other LED tanks.

I have also seen questions regarding the "spill" of light from these lamps. There really isn't that much especially on the 40d optics. The PAR38 I have has less spill than pretty much any other lighting system I have used. It is not distracting at all.

 

[Kay Tickle]

Agree on the "no spill". My PAR38 bulb hangs 12" over my 29g and is about 10' from my TV. Absolutely no distraction, except when I look over there and think "ooooh pretty" and turn off the TV because the tank is much more fun to look at!

 

[sonofgaladriel]

Thank you Sam and Kay for the replies. That helps alot. I have been considering the three light approach with different optics for each 'island'.
Each island will be progressively bigger than the other, as seen in the quick rendering below. I was thinking the smaller island could have a 40 or 60 degree optic over it, a 60 degree optic for the second largest island, and then an 80 degree for larger coverage over the largest island. Or, would simply 40 or 60 degree optics work over all three?
I would like for there to some slightly dimmer areas in the tank for more realism but also make sure that all SPS will have plenty of light over them as they grow outward.
What do you guys think?
Smaller circle in the middle represents the acutal LED pendant bulb placement as it would hang over the island. The large diameter is supposed to represent light spread.
I already have a very nice aquamedic 24" 250 DE pendant with a new 20K bulb I was planning on using until I found this thread! Not sure what to do now.

 

[Original Fin]

Thank you Sam and Kay for the replies. That helps alot. I have been considering the three light approach with different optics for each 'island'.
Each island will be progressively bigger than the other, as seen in the quick rendering below. I was thinking the smaller island could have a 40 or 60 degree optic over it, a 60 degree optic for the second largest island, and then an 80 degree for larger coverage over the largest island. Or, would simply 40 or 60 degree optics work over all three?
I would like for there to some slightly dimmer areas in the tank for more realism but also make sure that all SPS will have plenty of light over them as they grow outward.
What do you guys think?
Smaller circle in the middle represents the acutal LED pendant bulb placement as it would hang over the island. The large diameter is supposed to represent light spread.
I already have a very nice aquamedic 24" 250 DE pendant with a new 20K bulb I was planning on using until I found this thread! Not sure what to do now.

This is an interesting approach to reef lighting. LED is already the most efficent choice in artificial marine lighting, and you're taking it one step further by only focussing it where it's needed on the islands. I've seen this spotlight concept applied to FW cave biotopes before, and the effect is stunning.


Another possible benefit; it may also function as a growth inhibitor in the rest of the tank for things like nuisance algae, cyano, dino, etc, etc...cool!

 

[Mustang Boy]

how big will your islands be? the PAR38 has an effective coral growing range of a circle about 14in in diameter at the most depending on optic choice and height the lamp is placed about the tank. now the 14in diameter doesnt have the same PAR throughout it so directly under the bulb you cane have SPS then work your way out a little with some LPS and higher light softies, and then you could have your lowest light softies on the very edge(like mushrooms). now if your islands are gonna be larger or you want them to be completely SPS you may need multiple bulbs per island in which case you could mount them close together and even angle them so that only the island is lit up.

nanotuners is in the process of making MR16 base bulbs that have 3 LEDs in them and these would be great for highlighting small patches of the sand bed for clams or other corals that live on the sand but there is no set date to when these will become available(from what i have read they are still in the prototype stages)

 

[sonofgaladriel]

Hello Mustang Boy and thank you for the reply and info. Which optics are you referring when it comes to the 14" diameter growth ring?
My islands will likely be in the neighborhood of 4"x8", 6"x12", and the largest roughly 8"x16". I will only have SPS planted on the rocks. I do have a couple of nice pink/red yuma ricordeas that will go on the sand bed. No plans for LPS or other softies.
Which optics would you recommend to cover rocks of this size, allowing for coral growth that may eventually double the area of needed coverage?
Also, for a tank only 12" tall, what color temp, 12K or 20K. I am partial to a blue'er look, but some of the photos posted here make the 20 K look a bit too blue.

 

[drouner]

@sonofgaladriel
I think the 12K 40 degree optics is a good choice for SPS. The 40 degree optics have the best PPFD values. I have my bulb about 12" above the tank and it just covers a 12x12 section with great PPFD in the very center.

I placed the lamp over my other reef tank last (mostly SPS) night just to see what the coloration looks like. The color from the 12K Ecoxotic PAR38 was incredible! Currently running T5's on that tank but I think I might switch it over to LED's!

You would have 4 12x12 sections in your 24x24 footprint tank. I would start with two bulbs and maybe work up to 4 total. If you just have 3 islands you may be able to use just three bulbs and create that dramatic light effect I have seen in some of the other LED tanks.

I have also seen questions regarding the "spill" of light from these lamps. There really isn't that much especially on the 40d optics. The PAR38 I have has less spill than pretty much any other lighting system I have used. It is not distracting at all.

I may need to come over and see this!

 

[Mustang Boy]

Hello Mustang Boy and thank you for the reply and info. Which optics are you referring when it comes to the 14" diameter growth ring?
My islands will likely be in the neighborhood of 4"x8", 6"x12", and the largest roughly 8"x16". I will only have SPS planted on the rocks. I do have a couple of nice pink/red yuma ricordeas that will go on the sand bed. No plans for LPS or other softies.
Which optics would you recommend to cover rocks of this size, allowing for coral growth that may eventually double the area of needed coverage?
Also, for a tank only 12" tall, what color temp, 12K or 20K. I am partial to a blue'er look, but some of the photos posted here make the 20 K look a bit too blue.

the 14in growth ring would be the max for any optic it just depends on how high you mount the light. the wider the optic the closer to the tank youd need to be. ei. the 80 degree optics would need to be mounted closer to the tank to get that growth ring and the 40 degree could be farther away. the trade off is the 40s if placed closer to the tank will have much more PAR in a smaller ring.

for you smaller rock you could use 1 light, for the medium size one youd could use 1-2(probably one now and 2 once it grows in and gets really large), and the largest id say 2 to begin with and probably 3 once they are fully grown in. optics would depend on how high off the tank you wanted to mount the lights. the higher you mount them the tighter the optics would need to be of course
the bulb numbers are the bare minimum you may want to use more depending on how you want the lighting to look, ei. if you wanted to have the lights coming in at an angle to give cool effects that would alter the number you could need to get the coverage youd need for the corals

 

[sammy33]

Great thread going here. :fish1:

Thank you Sam and Kay for the replies. That helps alot. I have been considering the three light approach with different optics for each 'island'.
Each island will be progressively bigger than the other, as seen in the quick rendering below. I was thinking the smaller island could have a 40 or 60 degree optic over it, a 60 degree optic for the second largest island, and then an 80 degree for larger coverage over the largest island. Or, would simply 40 or 60 degree optics work over all three?

It seems this can also be accomplished by simply raising the bulb up and down. I have not tried the 60d or 80d yet. From the PPFD plots I have seen it looks like the 80d would not be a good choice if your goal is SPS light levels. Maybe a mix of 40d and 60d at different height levels would work for your situation?

My islands will likely be in the neighborhood of 4"x8", 6"x12", and the largest roughly 8"x16". I will only have SPS planted on the rocks.
Which optics would you recommend to cover rocks of this size, allowing for coral growth that may eventually double the area of needed coverage?
Also, for a tank only 12" tall, what color temp, 12K or 20K. I am partial to a blue'er look, but some of the photos posted here make the 20 K look a bit too blue.

The reef structure in my nano is ~6"x12" with my tank 12" tall. I have a DSB is this tank about 2.5" deep. The PPFD readings are in the ballpark for SPS. I would almost need two bulbs. Your larger island at 8x16 will likely need two PAR38 bulbs to support sps on the whole island. Your smaller 4x8 island will likely do well with only one bulb. Looking like 4 bulbs for your setup.

Your lower light corals can go on the fringe of your islands and down on the sand. Here is the pic again for reference. PPFD withe LED 12" above the tank. (Ecoxotic 12K PAR38 40d)

The color on the 12K is very nice. Not super blue at all. I think the 12k combined with the 20K would be very nice coloration for a two bulb setup. I think you could also benefit from adding some other spectrums like a violet or 420nm or less. The PAR38 lamps are 6500K daylight LED's and 455nm blue mixed. This is what I may do with a couple 403nm stunner strips just to help round out the colors.

Another possible benefit; it may also function as a growth inhibitor in the rest of the tank for things like nuisance algae, cyano, dino, etc, etc...cool!

I am hoping this is the case! LOL! I have heard this from a few others that have been using LED lighting. I think this is indeed a benefit of the more focused optics.

I may need to come over and see this!

Please do. I think you will like the LED's! Will be good to see you.

 

[Jacwil]

I'm thinking about getting an 18x18x18 for wife's office. It will only have a few fish and some softies. I'm hoping only one P38 will light it sufficiently. Would one 12k lamp with 60 deg.optcs suffice?

 

[Anemonebuff]

A PAR38 would be fine over that tank. You may even need to raise them up a bit so you don't burn the corals. 60* optics would be perfect. 40* would not give enough spread on that tank.