PAR Results HQI vs T5

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12157880#post12157880 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PCIALF
I am curious why would you have to agree with 250's when everything in my tank was doing awesome. These were 150 hqi's Tom let me borrow a 2 x 175w SE mh fixture till my light came in and the 150hqi's were much brighter

There are no rules that says you have to put 250's on a 120 and no 2 tanks are the same I am merely posting my experience and data to show the results :)
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Well, if your saying that the t5's beat MH lighting then you would have to compare apples to apples. In other words similar cost to run in my opinion so 500w of t5's versus 500w of MH instead of 150w of MH and some PC bulbs.

Reflectors do make a heck of a difference, and I am by no means a lighting expert but wonder about HQI or DE versus Mogul within the MH family.

As far as sharing your experience with the lighting change, its nice to see a detailed history and will be interesting to see what you think in a month or 2...3

So to get the shimmer your thinking of running some moon lights during the day? That was something I had considered when running PC bulbs on the old tank, there are some pretty nice fixtures out there that may do just what your looking for...strips with 5 or so lights on them.
 
Not to dispute your numbers, but your T5 bulbs seem to have a lot of "bluer" bulbs in it, is there any chance your PAR meter could be overcompensating at all? I know there are some that have a correction feature to deal with "non-sunlight" spectrums. (BTW, I'm saying this from someone who doesn't know the mechanics of how a PAR meter reads artificial lighting sources, not trying to dispute the numbers).

Also do you happen to have a kill-o-watt meter hooked up to your t5s to see what the power draw really is? I have often heard of "true t5 ballasts" and overdriving the bulbs to 80W instead of keeping them at 54W. Again I'm not trying to dispute your numbers since I already see some people "picking sides" in what should be a purely scientific debate.

Anyways great work you've done, I've recently switch my 24" tall softie tank from 4 - 54w bulbs, to 2-54w + 2-175w 12000k Reeflux bulbs... I wish I had access to a quantum meter though, or that they weren't so damn expensive! Not sure if I like the change yet, the only "cost" associated with the change was bulbs though since I had the MH ballasts and had some donations of reflectors but it was something I definitely wanted to try out, but after the bulbs run their life I can always switch back if I want.
 
Not sure why anyone would want to pick sides, its not a sporting event ;)

I am all for anything that saves on the monthly expenses of reefkeeping.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12160136#post12160136 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KurtsReef
Not sure why anyone would want to pick sides, its not a sporting event ;)
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Ok... barebottom or DSB??? *ducks out of sight* :D
 
One of the reasons I wanted people to use the par meter is so that we can compare and learn together. Basically, my experience is that for most corals we have a great deal more light then we need to keep them alive and well. For example the frogspwan in John's tank can survive very nicely in PAR ranges 100 and above. I'm pretty sure it can do well in PAR readings as low as 40-50...but I'm still working on that. Many SPS including Bali greens, many simmers, and several acros, do fine in PAR above 100. They also have good color generally speaking. On the other hand the only time I have ever seen my German blue digi look good is under the 400watt DE 20k lighting. There are some acros that are very hard to get good color out of...and that is where much of the discussion comes in about high end lighting and protein skimmer on and on.
The reason I went to MH at first was because I understood maxima clams required them. Again I'm pretty sure that is not true.
I know for sure that things like acans do better under lower light and high nutrition.
My neon green candy cane don't particularly like getting blasted by light, and are quit stunning under rock piles facing out (look at Sanjay's tank).
This all leads to some nice discussion....
As we move forward I would love to get a thread started on say an individual coral...likes different clams, and get readings from many tanks. Obviously we would like to get readings on clams that have been growing for at least two years, since they can decline very slowly.
Again John thanks for posting these numbers.
MK
 
QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12160120#post12160120 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sfsuphysics
Not to dispute your numbers, but your T5 bulbs seem to have a lot of "bluer" bulbs in it, is there any chance your PAR meter could be overcompensating at all? I know there are some that have a correction feature to deal with "non-sunlight" spectrums. (BTW, I'm saying this from someone who doesn't know the mechanics of how a PAR meter reads artificial lighting sources, not trying to dispute the numbers). [/QUOTE]

the par is actually quite high on the 460nm bulbs

again the expert is here

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12155313#post12155313

please read!!
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12160070#post12160070 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KurtsReef
Well, if your saying that the t5's beat MH lighting then you would have to compare apples to apples. In other words similar cost to run in my opinion so 500w of t5's versus 500w of MH instead of 150w of MH and some PC bulbs.

Reflectors do make a heck of a difference, and I am by no means a lighting expert but wonder about HQI or DE versus Mogul within the MH family.

As far as sharing your experience with the lighting change, its nice to see a detailed history and will be interesting to see what you think in a month or 2...3
Click to expand...

I am not saying anything the data is the data for interpretation. As far as DE vs Mogul, DE is a lot brighter / PAR


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12160070#post12160070 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KurtsReef
So to get the shimmer your thinking of running some moon lights during the day? That was something I had considered when running PC bulbs on the old tank, there are some pretty nice fixtures out there that may do just what your looking for...strips with 5 or so lights on them.
Click to expand...

Yes I am testing 1 set now but white vs. blue or a combo, I have one coming next week that I think is the ticket. I will post the results when done if no one will think that now my moonlights are brighter than MH :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12160516#post12160516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sfsuphysics
Ah groovy, I actually asked that question in that thread, but unfortunately I think it got to be another one of those "another person asked a question that was already addressed in a thread that was split multiple times"... but I'm glad the blue bulbs do have the output.
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I can't find it right now the search isn't working again but I have read it and asked the question, then tested it

The Giesemann: PowerChrome Actinic Plus has a very bright output compared to Giesemann: PowerChrome Aqua Blue +
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12160120#post12160120 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sfsuphysics
Not to dispute your numbers, but your T5 bulbs seem to have a lot of "bluer" bulbs in it, is there any chance your PAR meter could be overcompensating at all? I know there are some that have a correction feature to deal with "non-sunlight" spectrums. (BTW, I'm saying this from someone who doesn't know the mechanics of how a PAR meter reads artificial lighting sources, not trying to dispute the numbers).

B]
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blue bulbs put out less par..

Dave
 
Dave-

I'm with ya; I'm just doing it overdriven....

I can tell you a few things about my setup, over the past few years.
1. When I got away from the 10-12K range, and went "Bluer" my colors got much more vibrant, and ceased looking bleached.

2. Clams any higher than sandbed level bleach; at sandbed, they look perfect.

3. Almost everything higher than mid-point is sketchy; I'm actually going to raise the lamps soon to see what I can do to make this better.

I actually think I have WAY too much par; but it is something I plan on trying to fix, by raising the light.

As far as kill-a-watt readings; I draw 495 watts, all lights on; fans on full on the Solar Flare. When I ran DE/250's on IceCaps, It was between 280 and 300 watts, depending on how long they were on....

Just my experiences, until I get off my butt, and buy a PAR meter. :)

-Andy
 
I think each have their place. I wouldn't even add in the PC's on your old setup as they really don't add that much. I'd compare those two to 300 watts of MH to 400+ of T'5s. To me, the main point of T-5's that really shine are the lower wattage in comparison to MH and the heat. The only thing I can see here you are really saving on is heat. However, if you are happy with your tank/growth, then that is all that matters.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12160959#post12160959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oldimpala
Dave-

I'm with ya; I'm just doing it overdriven....

I can tell you a few things about my setup, over the past few years.
1. When I got away from the 10-12K range, and went "Bluer" my colors got much more vibrant, and ceased looking bleached.

2. Clams any higher than sandbed level bleach; at sandbed, they look perfect.

3. Almost everything higher than mid-point is sketchy; I'm actually going to raise the lamps soon to see what I can do to make this better.

I actually think I have WAY too much par; but it is something I plan on trying to fix, by raising the light.

As far as kill-a-watt readings; I draw 495 watts, all lights on; fans on full on the Solar Flare. When I ran DE/250's on IceCaps, It was between 280 and 300 watts, depending on how long they were on....

Just my experiences, until I get off my butt, and buy a PAR meter. :)

-Andy
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Andy I had issues with chalices and zoos under t-5... The ones that were in shaded areas did good the other were not so good.. Sps did fine no matter what... my tank is only 18" deep. What I did was cut back on my photo period, I had my t-5 set on the same times I had my halides with vho's on. Now the lps and zoos are better. Sps are doing fine under the lighting. I seriously was like allot of people and underestimated what t-5 lighting can do and I work in the lighting industry. We are using t-5 fixtures even in situations where we would use 400 watters.


You might want to try cutting back a little on your photo period slowly instead of raising the fixture. This option will save you some money on energy.

Yea the solar flare draws some xtra power because it is over driven... I feel with t-5 lighting it is not neccesary unless you have a real deep tank...
Dave
 
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Seems more like MH users from all over are jumping on this thread to "prove" their worth... People are always trying to justify their investment...
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12157508#post12157508 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PCIALF
Correct and that is why I am only posting this with the data to show what really is the difference in par between the lights and the coverings. Now the only thing really debatable is whether par matters or not. Now I really think that would be a silly position to take but the numbers are the numbers.

Also this thread has a wealth of knowledge and I consider the expert advise there I am no expert, but take the time and read the hundreds of posts in this thread there is a lot to learn. Grim is very generous with his knowledge.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12155313#post12155313
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In no way was my post meant to defend or show preference towards any type of lighting. It seems as if T5 's are definitely the way of the future and I would suggest anyone setting up a new tank to go that way. I too have been actively following Grim Reefers thread and he is indeed the king. However your test was extremely flawed, until you test them under the exact same conditions the test tells you nothing useful. JMO
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12160405#post12160405 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MarkKlier
The reason I went to MH at first was because I understood maxima clams required them. Again I'm pretty sure that is not true.
Click to expand...
There is a local reefer here that has an SPS dominated tank with several clams under T5 lighting only. His clams and SPS are all doing great and have the best color I have ever seen in person. He also gets decent growth which is great for me since I like getting frags from colonies I can go and see. I wouldn't hesitate to put clams under T5 only as long as you use an appropriate wattage for the tanks depth.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12161734#post12161734 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TwistedTiger
In no way was my post meant to defend or show preference towards any type of lighting. It seems as if T5 's are definitely the way of the future and I would suggest anyone setting up a new tank to go that way. I too have been actively following Grim Reefers thread and he is indeed the king. However your test was extremely flawed, until you test them under the exact same conditions the test tells you nothing useful. JMO
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In no way was this Thread a test. Read it, it is a documentary of me switching lights with data from my experience. Not a test of anything just data of here is my numbers of my tank with this light and this cover and I switched to this light and this cover and here are the new numbers.

and btw if you read the whole thread I did retest with the eggcrate if that was what you are referring to extremely flawed give me a break.
 
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John,
My next question is to see how long your T5 bulbs last before you have to replace them. That also cuts into the perceived savings if they need to be replaced more often and per the cost of each bulb needed.
 
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