Parameters question Mg & Id

[pascal32]

MG -

with the new tank my Mg seems to stay constant at 1450, whereas with teh old tank I would dose once a month. I will say I'm better about weekly water changes on the new system because its so easy to do

are folks dosing Mg? water changes enough?

Iodine -

I picked up the salifert kit out of curiosity - I am reading 0 across the board. I do have a light algae going in the tank which could be consuming the little bit the water changes introduce.

anyone dosing Iodine? I've read a lot of conflicting information as to whether it is needed or not.

thanks!

120 Gallon Mixed reef, SPS heavy

 

[Gravesj1s]

I dont dose either one.Water changes seem to keep Mg in check with my current tank.

Iodine I used to dose in a tank years ago in the form of Iodide but I wouldn't nowadays.
From what I remember Iodine is rapidly consumed or boundup ,converts from Iodine/Iodide/Iodate from there is anybodys guess.Ive had shrimp molt regularly,grown marine algae like sargasm without any supplmental additions so I remain unconvinced it should be supplemented.

Another way that Iodide and certain other elements could be replenished is just with feeding.Nori and kelp weeds contain it in dried form.
I dont really think most test kits can get a true reading for Iodine but admit no experience with the salifert or its accuracy.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

jmo

jmo

but I wouldn't be concerned if other folks dose something or not.

Like Graves already posted, foods fed the aquarium probably import more than enough iodine into a system and although I used to dose it years ago I wouldn't do it nowadays.
Keep Mg levels at optimal. Some folks will need to dose it and some won't. It all depends on their husbandry (water change schedule) and consumption rate.

 

[mr86mister]

What Gary said! +1

 

[pascal32]

Lol. Thanks - I wasn't planning on dosing mg since the test read good. It does bring comfort to hear I'm not the only one that doesn't have to dose mg!

As far as iodine goes I'm going to do a bitmmore reading

 

[Gravesj1s]

Blurry look into the negatives of Iodine dosing.I think that might give you somewhat of a better picture.Like you mentioned its not clearcut to where it ends up only it seems to test low according to test kits,for some anyway.
Some reads from my bad memory. Craig Bingmans article on halogens
check some of Ron Shimecks articles for feeding.
good luck with everything

 

[tmz]

Hi, wether or not you'll need to dose magnesium depends on water changes and the mag content of your slat mix as well as over caclium carbonate precipitation(growth by calcareous organisms or abiotic precipitation in your system. Growing calcium carbonate crystals incorporate some magnesium . You can check out the levels of mag in various salt mixes via the thread on salt mixes at the top of the reef chemistry forum.

Not all iodine is the same. There is organicaly bound iodine and iorganic idodine which takes predominantly 3 forms we encounter .
Iodine(I 2 ) can be toxic. A study showed 50% of rainbow trout die with exposure to 1ppm iodine , while tolerating up to 200ppm iodide(I-) and 850ppm iodate(IO3 ) Fortunately, much of the I2 will covert to iodide /iodate in an aquarium but I still would not dose iodine(I2) such as lugol's sloution .I dose straight iodide which in my opinion is the most readily bio available at 8ml of the Kent product per day for roughly 600 gallons.
I get 0 readings with the salifert kit too. Finally I dropped a few drops of iodide mixture in and got a slight reading. So I suppose the test kit works at some level. I choose to dose iodide because it depletes quickly particularly if you grow macroalgae and use gac as I do.
I am also interested in promoting growth by tunicates, sponges , gorgonians and red algaes which use substantial amounts.

 

[tmz]

Here is a good but someqhat technical article on iodine in aquaria:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm

 

[Gravesj1s]

~tmc,Hi.

I got to admit I haven't read anything on Iodine in over a decade but from the article you linked not much appears to have changed on this topic.

Not to be arumentative,just in discussion here,wondering your thoughts:
I realize as the article states Iodide is taken up by various life forums.Most seem to be using it as deterents ,toxins.I guess I'm not convinced its a positive.Some would point to the fact its found in the ocean and in marine life so it must be needed.Then again lead is found in the ocean an in stony corals but isn't necessary and actually toxic.

My real concern is when you look at the chemistry of a reeftank (rough guess here )250,000 -500,000 reactions that take place? Through some extracelluar reaction Iodide could be converted Iodine.Im very rusty with these topics but off the top of my head I believe Ozone would give that reaction. I think through photosynthesis corals give off 02/03 the (03) is this not the same as ozone?

In Randys article he states he doesn't reccomend trying to maintain nsw values with hobby grade testkits and regular dosing Im not sure if I read it correctly but I got the impression they weren't reading Iodate and that it could be accumulating.He was pointing out the seachem kit nothing mentioned on the salifert.What does the salifert kit read if you dont mind me asking?
I dont have a reference but I recall seeing at some point a study stating Iodate accumulates in sediments but ,as usual ,Im not sure.

Thanks for your time ,-Graves

 

[tmz]

As I understand it both Iodide(I-) and Iodate(IO3-)are oxidized forms possessing negative charges which lessens their ability to pass through cell walls and thus lessens their toxicity. I2 molecular iodine is neutral and moves more freely and is highly antiseptic. I believe the speciation of iodine in seawater tends to to iodide(I-) and iodate(IO3-) not the other way around.In fact the salifert test kit literature notes only iodide and iodate as the inorganic forms in seawater.

Ozone would promote oxidation not reverse it; am I missing something? I think ozone could affect iodine levels in that it might break the carbon bonds in organic compounds some of which could hold organic iodine which is one reason I shy away from chelated or bound so called "timed release " iodine supplements.

The salifert kit has two procedures: one to measure iodide concentration and the other to measure the combined iodide and iodate concentration.
The organisms I noted particularly gorgonians and red algaes have consistently high levels of iodine present beyond what would be excpected if it were not helpful to them.

Randy , generally does not recommend attempting to dose to maintain nsw values unless you keep gorgonians or other organisms that seem to need it. In most cases salt mixes and regular water changes should do fine.

I dose it because I do have organisms that likely need it and further I deplete it via gac use and bacterial uptake associated with carbon dosing with heavy skimming. I do not beleive toxicity is an issue if the total iodide and iodate concentration is kept below 0.06ppnm (approximate nsw value). Mine doesn't even register much of a tint on the test kit with the amount I dose so it's well below that. I do not dose molecular Iodine but do use it for coral dips

 

[Gravesj1s]

As I understand it both Iodide(I-) and Iodate(IO3-)are oxidized forms possessing negative charges which lessens their ability to pass through cell walls and thus lessens their toxicity. I2 molecular iodine is neutral and moves more freely and is highly antiseptic. I believe the speciation of iodine in seawater tends to to iodide(I-) and iodate(IO3-) not the other way around.In fact the salifert test kit literature notes only iodide and iodate as the inorganic forms in seawater.

<<<<Ozone would promote oxidation not reverse it; am I missing something? I think ozone could affect iodine levels in that it might break the carbon bonds in organic compounds some of which could hold organic iodine which is one reason I shy away from chelated or bound so called "timed release " iodine supplements.>>>>

Yes ,this answers alot above.I was under the impression the kent product you were refering to was chelated ,so my obvious concern would be as you noted ozone would break the bond releasing it all at once.Whitch makes much more sense in why you dose daily.sorry for the misconception.
Your most likely not missing anything ,I 'm pretty sure its me.lol.I got to do some refreshers pretty much with everything reef related.-Graves


The salifert kit has two procedures: one to measure iodide concentration and the other to measure the combined iodide and iodate concentration.
The organisms I noted particularly gorgonians and red algaes have consistently high levels of iodine present beyond what would be excpected if it were not helpful to them.

Randy , generally does not recommend attempting to dose to maintain nsw values unless you keep gorgonians or other organisms that seem to need it. In most cases salt mixes and regular water changes should do fine.

I dose it because I do have organisms that likely need it and further I deplete it via gac use and bacterial uptake associated with carbon dosing with heavy skimming. I do not beleive toxicity is an issue if the total iodide and iodate concentration is kept below 0.06ppnm (approximate nsw value). Mine doesn't even register much of a tint on the test kit with the amount I dose so it's well below that. I do not dose molecular Iodine but do use it for coral dips

 

[Gravesj1s]

-Tmc,

Missing quote I was refering to is second paragraph of yours.Have no idea why it didnt show up .Just another thing I need a refresher in.
Thanks for all your insights.-Graves

 

[pascal32]

Thanks to all. I haven't had a chance to catch up on reading - soon enough.

Only thing I'm sure of is that I wont be adding anything other than the basics till I get a full understanding (or something close to it )!

thanks again!

 

[tmz]

Darn (its hard for me to say darn, something stronger seems in order) thing crashed. Have to write this again.

After checking my notes and glancing back at Randy's ozone articles there are a few more points re: iodide and ozone use:

In addition to breaking up organics , ozone will react with iodide forming (HOI)hypoiodous acid which goes on to oxidize other things. These processes may /may not produce very very small amounts( 0.0002ppm or 0.3% of the total iodine species in the water) of molecular iodine(I2). Not much to worry over,in my opinion, especially since the I2 is not natural to seawater and will speciate to iodide/iodate.

Perhaps more significantly, HOI will skew the proportion of iodate: iodide (typically around .04ppm iodate: .02ppm iodide)toward iodate. At ozone levels supporting 400mv the reduction in iodide can be 50%. While both iodate and iodide are bioavailble and organisms take up both , iodide may be more bioavailable and some organisms may have special needs for it. For example, one study claims fish need iodide in the water to produce the hormone thyroxine,associated with nerve development. So if ozone reduces the amount of iodide a case can be made that supplementing iodide when using ozone is prudent.

Presently, I am not using ozone but I am contemplating doing it in the near future.