parasites are coming

glockcoma

Moved On
I think im starting to see some parasites on my fish, my tank just cycled after a month, I really dont want to start going overboard with all the qt and garlic, freshwater dips, hyposalinity dips. My fish havent even got over ship shock yet and to start chasing down with my net would probably cause more harm than parasites, so I was thinking of buying something like this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=16809&inm=1&N=2004+113521+2035

what do you guys think? or any other recommendations
 
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Most products geared toward removing crypto have not gotten good reviews.

You have only a couple of options here IME, one is to remove all fish to a QT tank for 6-8 weeks, leaving the display fallow while the fish undergo hypo or copper treatment, then qt every wet item that goes into your tank in the future (rock, sand, corals, inverts, fish, algaes). This is the only 100 percent foolproof method, 8 weeks is better than 6.

Second option is to hope for a partial immunity with the fish you currently have. There are a couple of problems with this. First is that any major stressor in the future is likely to lead to another outbreak, second is that any fish you add in the future will probably not be immune and will get an active infection of ich which they may or may not become immune to. This is problematic with any sensitive species prone to ich you may want to add in the future. I'm in this boat, I made the mistake of not qting and now have to be very carefull what fish I can add. The fish I do have seem to be immune at this point however, I never see any visible cysts and some of these fish are now pretty old. It is also difficult because while the fish I have now are immune, I can't guarantee that any future incoming fish won't carry a different strain to infect all my other fish. I added a A. Japonicus almost a month ago and he is doing well, though he has a few visible cysts.

I have an empty 125 and am thinking of QTing all my fish to get rid of the ich and ensure I can add more delicate species in the future.

HTH
 
My question reefshadow is . If your fish are imune to ich and lets say 90 days have past with no ich visible, then all the ich parasites are dead. This must be as good as a quarantine.
 
The visible ich is only one stage of their life cycle. Another stage is when they are in the fish's gills actively feeding on them there. Just because you don't notice any visible signs of the ich doesn't mean the tank is cured or that the ich no longer exists in the tank.
 
This is rediculous, w/ all this technology, skimmers, chillers, halides, ATO's and all these fancy smancy electronics and chemicals, even one that will put your tank to a specific ph for example, out available for your aquaria, I can not believe there is not one to get rid of these stupid parasites. this I can not believe. so none of these 29 products listed on df&ms work, this also I can not understand and beleive, I will go to a local wholesale wherehouse fish place where they have a variaty of this stuff and buy the most expensive one and I will follow directions to the t, and follow up w/ everyone, all this QT and dips, and leaving them in a sepparate tank for 6 weeks seems really really stupid and unnecesary when were living in 2007 not the 1980'S


29 products and none of them, now tell me how stupid is that?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/NavResults.cfm?N=2004+113016
 
is there some sort of conspiracy going on by the makers of qt tanks and garlic makers, like the oil companys conspiring on the making of cars that dont use gas, am I alone here on this, is there some sort of taboo to use these new products, am I speaking blasphemy here?
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9786884#post9786884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by glockcoma
I can not believe there is not one to get rid of these stupid parasites. this I can not believe. so none of these 29 products listed on df&ms work, this also I can not understand and beleive, I will go to a local wholesale wherehouse fish place where they have a variaty of this stuff and buy the most expensive one and I will follow directions to the t, and follow up w/ everyone, all this QT and dips, and leaving them in a sepparate tank for 6 weeks seems really really stupid and unnecesary when were living in 2007 not the 1980'S/B]


Have at it :) Kill your fish because you didn't follow the advice of a million reefers collected at ReefCentral.

You are entering one of the most debated topics in reefkeeping on a hobby level. You can spend all the money you want on cures for ICH, the simple fact is that they don't work as well as they should. Quarantine and hyposalinity/copper is a guaranteed solution so why isn't it what you wan't? Not sure why being in 2007 should change that. The problem with adding some poison/chemical/miracle to your tank usually also means that if it kills one thing, it is very likely to also kill something else.

I have not seen any signs of marine ich in my own tank in about a year now, but I am 95% sure that it is in there, I don't really care much because I am able to keep my fish healthy and they seem to be able to keep the parasite at bay all by themselves.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9787015#post9787015 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freed
Garlic is a wive's tale. It is not proven to kill ich.

Wives tale? Only if you are trying to prove that it kills anything.
Garlic is great, it is healthy for animals (and humans) so it keeps the fish in a state where it can fight off most diseases and parasites.
I have never before heard anyone believing that it is supposed to kill anything. I have never even heard of anyone trying to prove that it should be able to.
 
I just went through 2 bottles of that Stop Parasite.It doesnt work,I ended up setting up a hospital tank and used copper treatment.Ich was gone off fish in a few days.Most people on this site like lowering salinity to kill them.Waiting a month now before I put my fish back in the main display.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9786884#post9786884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by glockcoma
This is rediculous, w/ all this technology, skimmers, chillers, halides, ATO's and all these fancy smancy electronics and chemicals, even one that will put your tank to a specific ph for example, out available for your aquaria, I can not believe there is not one to get rid of these stupid parasites. this I can not believe. so none of these 29 products listed on df&ms work, this also I can not understand and beleive, I will go to a local wholesale wherehouse fish place where they have a variaty of this stuff and buy the most expensive one and I will follow directions to the t, and follow up w/ everyone, all this QT and dips, and leaving them in a sepparate tank for 6 weeks seems really really stupid and unnecesary when were living in 2007 not the 1980'S


29 products and none of them, now tell me how stupid is that?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/NavResults.cfm?N=2004+113016



I think everyone understands your frustration but, this is just the name of the game. Besides, that's what makes this hobby fun--nobody has the answer...we're all learning together. as for none of the products....well, they work, but you just have to (1) let all your fish die, (2) pull them out and dump them in QT, or (3) dump copper in your tank and kill all your corals and inverts. Those are really your only three options...first one sounds good to me.
 
who ever said garlic was for Killin ich?... or anything for that matter? iv only ever seen it sold to make food taste better to help sick fish eat, and hopefull recover from whatever is making them sick.
 
My question reefshadow is . If your fish are imune to ich and lets say 90 days have past with no ich visible, then all the ich parasites are dead. This must be as good as a quarantine.
As Freed stated, they can live at very minimal levels in the fishes gills, waiting until conditions are right (or wrong, lol) to reinfect the entire body of the host. I focus on optimal diet, minimal stress and good parameters and so far haven't had a reinfestation (in over a year), even with the new tang having an active outbreak. It is like a time bomb however, so I am tentatively planning on removing all the fish to hypo in the future. Not a fun prospect with a 240 gallon reef.
I have not seen any signs of marine ich in my own tank in about a year now, but I am 95% sure that it is in there, I don't really care much because I am able to keep my fish healthy and they seem to be able to keep the parasite at bay all by themselves.
This is pretty much the way I feel, but I really want an achilles tang! No way that will happen IMO with ich in my reef.
is there some sort of conspiracy going on by the makers of qt tanks and garlic makers, like the oil companys conspiring on the making of cars that dont use gas, am I alone here on this, is there some sort of taboo to use these new products, am I speaking blasphemy here?
Nah. There's no conspiracy here, just alot of experienced people that have tried everything and seen first hand what works and what doesn't. It's never blasphemy to ask any honest question, IMO.

It is possible that the products geared toward removing ich do work, but only in a minimal fashion. (Based on anecdotal evidence from other reefers). Perhaps they only kill/remove the parasite in one of it's forms. The problem with this scenario is that they could reinfect as soon as they enter their next life stage, and they are ready to find a host again. Another problem is that even if it works, you are still in the same position when you decide to add another fish, coral, invert, ect... you are likely to reintroduce crypto and be back at point A, deciding what to do about it. It's also possible that these products remove the visible ich granting the fish time to develop a partial immunity in which case it's still there and again, you're back at point A. I think this is what probably happens with folks who swear these products work, but just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

There really are alot of "snake oil" type products out there in this hobby, making claims that can't be proven or are even outright lies.
 
It just baffles me that in these days of vaccines for highly complex viruses and bacteria, that we have to suffer and put are fishes through these long ardues and what seems outdated forms of rehab to get better, from a parasite not a virus, not a complex disease, a parasite, and urbansurges look at a why fix if it isnt broke theory, how about improvement, the reason why I mentioned 2007 is because the advances that the sciences have made. it just seems that no one can fathom a thought that there can be a simple cure for this simple parasite, people at one point thought there was no stopping infection but a "miracle drug" came out called pennicilin.
 
it just seems that no one can fathom a thought that there can be a simple cure for this simple parasite, people at one point thought there was no stopping infection but a "miracle drug" came out called pennicilin.
I hear you, it is frustating. The problem lies in the fact that crypto is really not a simple organism, it is actually quite complex accounting all its life stages and has evolved over millions of years to infect fish.

Even if you account for all our advances in medicine; viruses, bacterias and parasites will always get the best of us in the end, adapting to overcome any treatment as fast as we develop them. Who knows, our hobby may even see the advent of a hypo or copper resistant crypto strain. Pennicilin was once thought to be a miracle and the end of all bacterial sickness, but it turns out it was just a platform for the evolution of resistant strains that no drug currently developed can deal with.

We haven't even found a way to reliably deal with the malaria causing parasite, which has killed more people throughout the course of history than all wars or diseases combined, and still kills today despite billions of dollars and the lifetime efforts of people to eradicate it.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9787541#post9787541 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by glockcoma
It just baffles me that in these days of vaccines for highly complex viruses and bacteria

Well, I am not qualified to tell you about this, but my understanding is that by vaccinating for a virus (flu example) we just teach our bodies how to deal with the virus, it isn't a cure. Bacteria is a different beast altogether.
But my point is that if you are thinking that we have all these high tech solutions (not workarounds) for all manner of ill sources, then I think you need to change your thoughts and not the "cures" ;)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9787541#post9787541 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by glockcoma
It just baffles me that in these days of vaccines for highly complex viruses and bacteria, that we have to suffer and put are fishes through these long ardues and what seems outdated forms of rehab to get better, from a parasite not a virus, not a complex disease, a parasite, and urbansurges look at a why fix if it isnt broke theory, how about improvement, the reason why I mentioned 2007 is because the advances that the sciences have made. it just seems that no one can fathom a thought that there can be a simple cure for this simple parasite, people at one point thought there was no stopping infection but a "miracle drug" came out called pennicilin.
dude, no! just no. its not worth it even unless you havce a super expensive fish. thats how vets got to the way they are today. spend 10G's on your dog's heart transpant and he still dies 2 weeks later. its just gets insane and we need to draw a line :D
 
Re: parasites are coming

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9784659#post9784659 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by glockcoma
I think im starting to see some parasites on my fish, my tank just cycled after a month, I really dont want to start going overboard with all the qt and garlic, freshwater dips, hyposalinity dips. My fish havent even got over ship shock yet and to start chasing down with my net would probably cause more harm than parasites, so I was thinking of buying something like this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=16809&inm=1&N=2004+113521+2035

what do you guys think? or any other recommendations

If you had done your research and quarantined in the first place, you wouln't be in this situation. If you are in a rush just to get some fish in there, you are awaiting disaster. I learned this from loosing my first ten fish within a 5 week period. I have yet to loose even 1 after 5 months of quarantining first. The fastest cure isn't always the best cure. You success will come with your patience in proper care, research, and treatment of your livestock.
 
Ok, Ive purchased chem-marine parasite stop, Its said in directions that it will pring down ph, so put some proper ph 8.2 than added the recommended dose of anti-parastite, Ill have to follow this for five days twice a day, Ill keep testing ph make sure theres not a sifnificant drop, all livestock looks good, the only one I fear for is my serpent star which are realy intolerable to ph and water chemistry change, Ill keep everyone posted on outcome, Ill be hoping for the best, and if it doesnt work I promise ill let you all know, for future reference.
 
You will notice the spots of ich disappear in a few days BUT that is NOT the medication working, it is only the natural cycle of the ich dropping off to start another cycle in the sand/substrate. This is why so many people think these meds are miracle cures.
 
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