PC based Controller

[miramont]

Guys, let's not start ripping apart a design that hasn't been started yet. What we need is some general agreement on what we want this hardware to do and how we expect to control it. I think that if we clearly set out our design requirement then we can best choose what features the hardware must have in order to meet the design requirements. Besides what we really need to do is take that first step and try it out and see for ourselfs. After we know what we got then we can say we have a frame of reference on where we want to take our initial design.

miramont

 

[banger]

I posted a schematic for a stand-alone/pc hosted aquarium controller. You can view it here: http://www.instanet.com/~banger

 

[fossill]

I hope for the end result of this project is knowledge for everyone to share, discuss, and BUILD THEIR OWN controllers and not simply take someone elses work and blindly put it to use. What's the point of that?

I agree...but to only to a certain point. I'm just as interested in building a little device to control my aquarium as the next guy (er person) but lets face it, not everybody has 5 hours after working a full day to come home and work on software/hardware designs. Sure, each individual will most likely need the ability to customize the device for their own needs. However, if done correctly, the product should lend it self well to precisely that. I wouldn't mind slapin down a few bucks for something thats 95% complete and all I have to do is customize it for how I run my tank. If that means buyin some extra probes or writing some software, so be it. At the same time, it should be fully functional by default with the basic control routines that 99% of all of us will use.

Sure there are plenty of products on the market and tons of different ways to provide for your fish. However, in the end, we are all doing exactly the same thing...keeping fish in a cube of water. I'd be willing to bet that a product could be made to satisfy just about everyone with the exception of some of the extremists out there. For them, they would be welcome to add/remove/edit the product as they see fit but it should be EASY to do it.

Just my 2 pennies....

 

[stonkers]

Ditto. This is also the reason I haven't opened a project on sourceforge. I posted a synopsis of what I thought the project was about and got some condemnation on my philosophies. In my opinion (please take it as that), this project has strayed from it's original intentions. Yeah, it's cool that everyone wants their own thing, but the intent was to provide affordable automation for the reef community, not EE's and Software Engineers only. I see where everyone would want it to be coded in the language that they understand, most commonly understood, easiest to work with, best suited for the job, most portable, and on and on and on... I guess I just got lost trying to translate what everyone wanted. I can submit a project with some vague information to sourceforge, but I'm guessing that would make it less likely to be accepted. I need a purpose statement, agreed upon key features, and a belief that we aren't wasting sourceforge's server space. I see about 4 different directions out of this project. Sorry if I've offended anybody, that was not my intent. You're all very intelligent and have great ideas.

 

[vmiller]

My thinking was that anything more in depth than sharing information would be too complicated and might cause this project to fade away.

Once a unit is built and tested, who's going to reproduce it for sale?

Who's going to get the money?

If more than one person, how will the money be divided?

etc, etc,

I guess it doesn't really matter. As long as one working unit is created, there will still be beneficial knowledge to share.

 

[stonkers]

My thought was if Jojo wants to sell PLC's for a decent rate, let him sell them. The benifit to the community would be the ability to set the whole system up without a doctorate in engineering and computer science. Programming that can be loaded into the PLC, an interface that can be used to set specific settings of the PLC, and user friendly documentation to be accessed by Joe Reefer on how to connect and setup his particular equipment. Not that the knowledge shouldn't be shared for the hackers out there, just that this won't benifit everyone.

 

[richard55]

i am new to aquariums but have some ideas regarding data aquasition. I agree that it should not be pc based. I like this embedded controller with ethernet built in.


http://www.rabbitsemiconductor.com/products/rcm3000/index.html

Also for ammoinia detection i think it would be possible to use seachems http://www.petdiscounters.com/aquarium/test_kits/sm_ammonia_alert.html

by montoring the color you could sense the ammonia level.

just some thoughts.

I would like to see what you guys have so far any downloads?

 

[brenkels]

IKS Controller

IKS Controller

Does anybody have any experience with the IKS-USA controllers.

 

[JMan5000]

DrDaq

DrDaq

Even though this one is computer dependant www.drdaq.com , it works rather well. Had it going for about 6 months measuring my Ph and temp and was in the middle of writing a VB program to execute x10 shell commands for it (drdaq software comes with dll's you can easily call and comes with some example's as well in VB, C++,etc) when I started getting fluctuations in my readings from the unit. Havent really had time to see what was causing the fluctuations, but hopefully I can get around to it shortly. THe unit is about $125 with a ph probe and 2 temp sensors and has 2 optional external sensors inputs. And with activehome unit for x10 around $50 with some modules, you can definately keep this project under $200 total if you have an old 486 or something lying around. My future projects with this included web page access via php and maybe periodic messages to my cell phone with vital stats or alarms via a modem.

 

[Saltybob]

ph sensors

ph sensors

I have read all the posts on plcs versus pc based systems. I am going to put together a plc based system. I have the plc and rtds and the level probes. I am looking for an affordable ph sensor. I have looked on line and I have not been able to find out what the ph sensors outputs are. This is essential in specing the plc out Does anyone have an example of outputs and part numbers?ie. millivolts, 0-20, 0-10vdc??

 

[JMan5000]

Salty, I think it measures the impedance from the electrode, but not sure what the scale/conversion is. I will check into it some more and PM it to you if I can find it.

 

[banger]

I think the about is +/- 350 milivolts

 

[Krusk]

ttt

 

[Icepic]

if you all dont mind
i feel that a computer controller would be great

but just looking at the computer only , your inputs would be so limited.

plc is a nice idea also , but here the cost drives it way out of rang , for just messing with

i as others i would recomend going with a pic chip
(programmable intergrated controller)

in do so im looking at the microchip pic16F877

which has

runs at 20 mhz
has
8 analog to digital converts
3 timers
2 pulse width modulators
14 i/o lines

so in possible lamens terms

8 a/d so up to 8 sensors (ph,orb,salinity,temp)

3 timers (stop the pumps and stuff for feeding time , then resart after so long)

2 pwm (use servo motors to run automatic feeders )

14 i/o lines (use for running your power heads , pumps , float switches and what ever else could be whipped up )

 

[Icepic]

if you all dont mind
i feel that a computer controller would be great

but just looking at the computer only , your inputs would be so limited.

plc is a nice idea also , but here the cost drives it way out of rang , for just messing with

i as others i would recomend going with a pic chip
(programmable intergrated controller)

in do so im looking at the microchip pic16F877

which has

runs at 20 mhz
has
8 analog to digital converts
3 timers
2 pulse width modulators
14 i/o lines

so in possible lamens terms

8 a/d so up to 8 sensors (ph,orb,salinity,temp)

3 timers (stop the pumps and stuff for feeding time , then resart after so long)

2 pwm (use servo motors to run automatic feeders )

14 i/o lines (use for running your power heads , pumps , float switches and what ever else could be whipped up )


and you can get the pic chip for under 10 dollars

 

[igoRluse]

I would like to contribute to this idea with the following. For the background I am a software engineer.

Now as most have probably realised, we all want the same thing here (a controller) but there are about as many ideas as to how to produce it as there are posts in this thread.

I think it is very important at this stage that we put into place a management team to take the decisions and guide this project in the right direction before it comes to a dead end. This management team will have the role of producing a high level proposition document for submission to Source Forge so that it can gather comments from everybody willing. The management team will then have the role of deciding what corresponds to most people's idea of a inexpensive reef controller. This management team should be rather small (3 or 4 people) to be able to effectively take decisions and should be composed of specialists in each area needed for this project. I have identified the following needs:

_An aquarist experienced in the use of commercially available controllers with a good knowledge of the needs for saltwater, reef, and the different kinds of freshwater aquariums.
_A hardware specialist with knowledge of domotic controllers.
_A software engineer
_An analyst with experience in project management.

This team should be elected amongst the candidates by everybody interested. It is important to realise that it will require an enormous amount of work and dedication and that only the most motivated and capable people should consider being part of the management team.
Once the proposition and comments have been compiled, a final document describing the project at a mid to low level will be put together by the management team and the necessary skills will be posted so that all those interested can express their desire to participate. The management team will then be responsible for selecting the team.


Now, of course I have my own personnal views as to how this controller should be done but I am not going to talk about them now as not to add to the mess that this thread is already becoming.
I will only insist on one point. This project must be run and licensed under the GPL. This means that the software and documentation produced will be availble to all for free. If any money is involved or any of the participants expect anything other than the satisfaction of having helped make this hobby even greater, this project WILL NOT WORK. The most handy of us will be able to download the software and documentation and make our own controllers, the others will have to buy them from companies inplementing our controller. These companies will have to agree to our GPL license and make all their work in software and documentation availble to all for free. Of course as they will not have to pay for our work, they will be able to make these controllers for a very inexpensive price. The gratuity of our work will also induce competition from several companies.

I would like to be a candidate for the management team in my quality of software engineer. Could all others interested and motivated please express their interest so we can get this project off the ground.

 

[barebottoms]

This is actually the older of the "current" controller threads. There is already another thread called "RUGRATS" which apparently is started and "managed". That one is based on a PLC and uses commercial software for its development. From what I gathered from the 2nd runner up "Project Manager" it really didn't meet my criteria for design.

1) Open Source
2) Open hardware
3) Cheap enough for everyone to participate

But if you look carefully in this thread and the Rugrats thread, banger has a really nice design for a Open Hardware PIC based controller. The board is already drawn up.

It meets my requirements of Open Hardware and sort of Open Source. I couldn't find a Open Source 'C' compiler for the target Micro, but you can just use the PIC Assembler for it. So thats the one I'm going to write for.

 

[banger]

[It meets my requirements of Open Hardware and sort of Open Source. I couldn't find a Open Source 'C' compiler for the target Micro, but you can just use the PIC Assembler for it. So thats the one I'm going to write for. [/B]

Hi,

Microchip has a full featured demo of their C compiler which supports the processor on the board I designed. You can download the demo from here:
http://www.microchip.com/1010/pline/tools/picmicro/code/mplab18/index.htm

I would suggest buying the microchip ICD2, which is around $100, this will allow you to program and debug the processor. With the ICD2, and the C compiler, everything is tied together, so it makes it very easy to write code, test it and debug it. I will add the ICD2 compatible connector to the board design.

 

[Krusk]

any updates?

 

[banger]

Hi,

Sorry it has taken a while, my job has kept me quite busy. But needless to say, the baord layout is pretty much finished, so boards should be ready to order in the next few days. I have also added an ethernet/web interface to the baord, so you can connect it to your home network. This would also allow you to control and monitor it anywhere through the web interface. We will need a few volunteers willing to test and debug the design. Please contact me if you are interested.

Chris