Penductor or Enductor

[jjk_reef00]

Anyone have experiences with these? I'm considering using one of the two.
I don't know the pro's or con's, and how they are different.

Here is my situation:
I'm setting up a 270 gallon 8'x30"x24" (LxWxH) with a 120 gallon sump for SPS. I'm using a barracuda as a return with about 6' of head pressure.

My lfs told me to use 4 of the 3/4" Enductors with this pump. I went to a different lfs and they were using Penductors in their show tank. I was originally going to use 6 of them, but I'm considering using 4 because I have a tunze wavemaker and 2x 6100's.

I would like to know:
1.) Which should I use, and why?
2.) How many outputs should I use 4 or 6?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated because I am really confused as to which one I should use.

Here are links to both:
Penductor
http://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=PF-PE0750MB-375

Enductor

http://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=PF-PCEDC-0750-M

 

[fourzero]

Re: Penductor or Enductor

Couple of thoughts:

1. 6' of head is not nearly enough to push through even one eductor, let alone 4 or 6
2. The Mazzei eductor is a much better design than the Pacific Coast
3. They both essentially do the same thing, but the Mazzei design looks like it will pull more water into the venturi.
   [/list=1]
   
   If you want eductors, you need more head pressure, WAY more head pressure than 6'. Either it's back to the drawing board, or use standard loc-line return nozzles.
   
   HTH.
   
   

   <a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14803753#post14803753 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jjk_reef00
   Anyone have experiences with these? I'm considering using one of the two.
   I don't know the pro's or con's, and how they are different.
   
   Here is my situation:
   I'm setting up a 270 gallon 8'x30"x24" (LxWxH) with a 120 gallon sump for SPS. I'm using a barracuda as a return with about 6' of head pressure.
   
   My lfs told me to use 4 of the 3/4" Enductors with this pump. I went to a different lfs and they were using Penductors in their show tank. I was originally going to use 6 of them, but I'm considering using 4 because I have a tunze wavemaker and 2x 6100's.
   
   I would like to know:
   1.) Which should I use, and why?
   2.) How many outputs should I use 4 or 6?
   
   Any advice would be greatly appreciated because I am really confused as to which one I should use.
   
   Here are links to both:
   Penductor
   http://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=PF-PE0750MB-375
   
   Enductor
   
   http://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=PF-PCEDC-0750-M

 

[xJake]

Re: Re: Penductor or Enductor

Re: Re: Penductor or Enductor

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14804382#post14804382 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fourzero
Couple of thoughts:

1. 6' of head is not nearly enough to push through even one eductor, let alone 4 or 6
2. The Mazzei eductor is a much better design than the Pacific Coast
3. They both essentially do the same thing, but the Mazzei design looks like it will pull more water into the venturi.
   [/list=1]
   
   If you want eductors, you need more head pressure, WAY more head pressure than 6'. Either it's back to the drawing board, or use standard loc-line return nozzles.
   
   HTH.

1. 
   
   I'm pretty sure he means that the pump's flow is being REDUCED by 6' of head pressure, as in his return line travels 6' up from the output of the pump to the tank. He's not saying that his pump's maximum head pressure is 6', or w/e it is you may be thinking that he's attempting to say.
   
   I would go with the eductor. If you look at the penductor the output is reduced before it exits which is counter-intuitive to the entire theory behind using them in the first place. Why would you want to reduce the output and then increase it? It makes more sense to me to just use the eductor and get the full ouput plus the additional flow from the venturi effect.
   
   Personally, I don't see the point in wasting your money on either. I would just use a simple output for your return and not worry about trying to create "extra flow."

 

[jjk_reef00]

Good info guys!
xJake is correct. The pumps flow is being Reduced by 6' of head pressure, the return line travels 6' up from the output of the pump to the tank.

Sorry for my bad explanation I am new to the plumbing terminology. My civil engineering friend was making fun of me because I called it "one point five inch pipe". Apparently in the field they call it "an inch and one half".

 

[dj9264]

I use one of the ones from the first link you gave on my main return with a sea swirl. I prefer the more open design becuase I get some algea growth around this high flow area.

The interesting thing is that you'll will save money by using an enductor because your pump will use less energy. Not sure how many years it would take to make up for its $14 or $25 cost.

PS. Penductor and enductor are synonymous.

 

[Macimage]

I also use the ones in the first link on my Seaswirls and I think they are great. They really increase the flow.

Joyce

 

[jjk_reef00]

So after reading some other sites I found out both reduce the size of the output before the water exits. It appears the Enductor output is reduced more than the Penductor. That is why the Penductor claims to have less pressure drop.

I am leaning towards using the Penductor. Thanks for the feedback with your experiences. It would also be helpful if you could post what type of pump you are using.

 

[Macimage]

Ampmaster 3000 pumps.

Joyce

 

[jjk_reef00]

Thanks Joyce. A couple of questions:
What size Penductors are you using?
I'm leaning towards 3/4"

How many did you connect to one Ampmaster pump (It pumps 4000gph @ 2ft right) ?

 

[mcrist]

I just added two Penductors to my setup and I love the increased flow they gave me.

 

[tkeracer619]

The reduction in size increases velocity which in turn increases the amount of water pulled in via the venturi. It does add a considerable amount of head which is why they work best on pressure rated pumps.

 

[fourzero]

Re: Re: Re: Penductor or Enductor

Re: Re: Re: Penductor or Enductor

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14804827#post14804827 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xJake

I would go with the eductor. If you look at the penductor the output is reduced before it exits which is counter-intuitive to the entire theory behind using them in the first place. Why would you want to reduce the output and then increase it? It makes more sense to me to just use the eductor and get the full ouput plus the additional flow from the venturi effect.

Personally, I don't see the point in wasting your money on either. I would just use a simple output for your return and not worry about trying to create "extra flow."

1. They're both eductors, a "penductor" is just a trademark name.
2. The outlet is supposed to be reduced, this is what creates the venturi and draws water from the tank into the eductor
3. There is indeed "extra flow" using an eductor as long as you have sufficient head pressure to drive it.
4. I suggest reading up on eductors and/or basic fluid dynamics before offering advice.
   [/list=1]

 

[Macimage]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14808452#post14808452 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jjk_reef00
Thanks Joyce. A couple of questions:
What size Penductors are you using?
I'm leaning towards 3/4"

How many did you connect to one Ampmaster pump (It pumps 4000gph @ 2ft right) ?

On the 225 gallon tank I use two 1" educator/penductors on my two 1" Seaswirls run with one Ampmaster 3000. That tank also has a third 1" one on another 1" Seaswirl run by another Ampmaster 3000 that has the chiller water return. I may swap in a smaller pump for that one though just to save electrical costs. These have been running for 5-6 years or so.

The 180 gallon has two 3/4" Seaswirls with 3/4" educators/penductors run by another Ampmaster 3000, but this pump is throttled back as it's too much pump for the overflow holes. (This was a used tank and the plumbing holes were already drilled into the glass or I would have gone bigger). I plan on replacing this pump with a smaller pump (Reeflo Snapper) to save electrical costs (Calif. has some high $$ electricity!).

Yes, I believe that is the flow figures for the Amp 3000.

Joyce

 

[jjk_reef00]

Thanks for the response. I'm going to try anywhere between 4 and 6 3/4" on my barracuda. I'm going to have a valve on each LOC line so I can fine tune it to my liking.

 

[dj9264]

I use the pressure rated Velocity T-3 with one 1" educator.

Pressure rated pumps are designed to handle higher head.