People love LED's... Corals do not !!

[jlnielsen13]

This is a tough thread for me to write! I hoped I would never have to write something like this but have been sweeping the facts under the carpet anemone for too long now.

Little background:

I have been in the hobby for close to 20 years now and have had close to a dozen different setups including 4 currently right now. My degree (masters) is in animal science and I have taught biology for the past 7 years at the high school level. I reference this only to show that I know how to set up and carry out an experiment.

One of my tanks, a 90 gallon mixed reef, has had 4 Aqua Illumination LED units on it for two years now. At first, if you read my previous posts, I couldn't have been happier. Besides the switch from metal halide to LED's my tank has stayed the same (NO OTHER VARIABLES). Well, there have been livestock changes so I guess that is a variable but no equipment variables. I use dosing pumps and regular water changes and have a fuge so I have little fluctuations in parameters.

I couldn't be happier with the programmability and looks of the LED's. They are amazing. The decrease in energy use and lack of chiller also is incredible. But those are all things that make me happy!

My coral health has degraded little by little and I have little to no growth or reproduction where as before I had to frag and split corals on a monthly basis. I DON't want to admit it because I dropped $2300 on these lights before the price reduction.

But it is time to face the facts. Corals in my opinion do not do as well under LED lighting... They look better and having 14 different settings over the course of the day is awesome but those only please the human not the corals.
Here is a pic of the current system as it sits right now..

I am still very proud of the tank and think it looks great. I love to watch it everyday. But if I take a step back and think about the animals health, both hard and soft coral, there is no doubt that they have suffered under these lights.

Gotta teach a class now but thought I would throw that out for discussion- again only my opinion from 2 years of my own "research"

Thanks,
JIM

 

[Steveb]

Do you have any pics/measurements of say a specific SPS when it was under MH and then again today after 2 years under AI?

The reason I am asking is that I'm doing a build w/8 AI blues that I paid the old price for (gives you an idea how long I have been collecting pieces), along with 4 - 54w T5HO's and I have been waffling about dumping them and going w/4 250W 20k radiums. Tank is 96x40x24. I have the ballasts and 2 reflectors already (was going to use them for a propagation setup). Would also probably need a chiller. I'm also afraid that to get the coverage I need I will need to raise my (yet to be built) light hood and use 400w MH.

 

[DonCorsean]

If you have concrete data from your experiment it would be welcome as I'm working on a build as we speak and planning on using LED technology (4 x Orphek PR-156). Hate to drop thousands on custom built stand/lighting solution and it be detrimental to the long term health of my reef.

 

[Tickle]

Are you sure its not too much light? 4 sounds like too many units on that tank. I made the switch a couple months back and I see a immediate improvement over my halides. Do you maybe have what the manufacturer recommends for coverage? My tank ( 40 breeder ) calls for about 120 watts using the Cree rule of thumb. I have a 100 watt fixture that I can only run at about 65-75% before I see my corals start going down hill. Just my 2 pennies.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

 

[jrp1588]

Weird, I spent $300 on some generic ebay LED units and saw big improvements over my old ATI sunpower that cost twice as much.

 

[jwoyshnar]

After the acclimation time my corals seem to love them. Been using LEDs for almost two years also

 

[jacob.morgan78]

Maybe the units now are better suited then they were two years ago for sps... I use t5s so I have no personal experience... may be interested in leds in a few years once more advancements are made and prices drop...

good thread

 

[Bdial]

In your picture you posted it appears as though you have mostly soft corals and lps. From what I've read and learned. Those corals don't do as well under LEDs as they do under t5 mh. LEDs are a specific color where as t5 and mh cover a full lighting spectrum. Sps have done better under LEDs where as some soft corals have just stayed the same. Do you have sps? How have they faired?

 

[Michael]

might depend on the quality of the LEDs, crees are the way forward, great opening thread by the way, at last a decent subject which is actually interesting concerning lighting, well done Jim, I will follow this thread

 

[michika]

Interesting post. I'd be interested in seeing more photos because while I understand what you mean by 'decline', visuals are always a great help.

Have you measured PAR, or any other recordable feature relating to your lighting since you've switched?

 

[Rockster2599]

My corals are loving mine but its early days yet (5 months).

 

[cdrewferd]

I would think you have to much light. A 90 should only have 2, and even then you probably would never turn them up to 100%.

 

[d2mini]

I have 4 radions over my 7 ft long 200g tank.
They are mounted lengthwise since it's only 24" front to back and i have a coast-to-coast overflow that takes up 5 inches of that space, but still. I agree with others that you may be blasting them with too much light. Something to consider anyway. My experience is that LEDs may appear dimmer than MH/T5 and people falsely think they need to crank them up to achieve the same results when in fact the opposite is true. They are stronger than they appear.

 

[VegasMike]

I have five units over each of my tanks. Both tanks are 72"x24"x30". The intensity never gets above 70%. The lights have been on the tanks for about a little over a year and a half. I have noticed that certain corals appear to grow like weeds while others don't. I am not too worried about it as long as that remains the case. I expect some to grow faster than others. These are mostly SPS, but the clams love the light as well. I had a larger tank in Las Vegas with a couple different MH setups. It was a 96"x36"x30" tank, first with 8x250's and then 4x400's. I experienced the same thing I am with my LED's, certain corals thrived and certain corals were much slower growing.

In my current tanks, I have several wild colonies and several maricultured colonies that have shown substantial growth. I also have quite a few frags that have grown out nicely.

I recently tried boosting the lighting by 5% and the corals really did not like it. In fact, I am considering lowering it 5% now.

 

[Steveb]

I have five units over each of my tanks. Both tanks are 72"x24"x30". The intensity never gets above 70%. The lights have been on the tanks for about a little over a year and a half. I have noticed that certain corals appear to grow like weeds while others don't. I am not too worried about it as long as that remains the case. I expect some to grow faster than others. These are mostly SPS, but the clams love the light as well. I had a larger tank in Las Vegas with a couple different MH setups. It was a 96"x36"x30" tank, first with 8x250's and then 4x400's. I experienced the same thing I am with my LED's, certain corals thrived and certain corals were much slower growing.

In my current tanks, I have several wild colonies and several maricultured colonies that have shown substantial growth. I also have quite a few frags that have grown out nicely.

I recently tried boosting the lighting by 5% and the corals really did not like it. In fact, I am considering lowering it 5% now.

Interesting. That is good to know. I have been putting that decision off for as long as possible. Are you using SOL or SOL blues?

 

[VegasMike]

Sol Blues, one tank has standard optics, one has all 70's, both are set exactly the same and I do not see much of a difference. That being said, the lights are 9" above the surface.

 

[Tickle]

I think that so far the majority agrees there may bee too much light in the system. Could you maybe give us some specifics such as
-PAR READINGS
-THE TYPE OF LED USED IN THE FIXTURE
-THE WATTAGE OF THE FIXTURE
-DIMMABLE/NON DIMMABLE
-IF DIMMABLE WHAT PERCENTAGE ARE THEY RUN AT
-PHOTO PERIOD
-DEPTH OF TANK
-HEIGHT OF FIXTURE FROM WATERS SURFACE
-OPTICS

those all play a big factor, you cannot replace 100 watts of MH with 100 watts of LED and you will not be able to mount them at the same height either.

I still feel there may be too much light in the tank, as someone posted before they are only using 2 over a 90. Maybe we can help you figure out this problem and put some cash back in your pocket by allowing you to sell 2 of those fixtures.

 

[BeanMachine]

My softies and lps grow fine under my leds. I don't really have SPS besides montis though. Not to discount your experience its just maybe its something else your missing.

 

[james30ct]

My softies and lps grow fine under my leds. I don't really have SPS besides montis though. Not to discount your experience its just maybe its something else your missing.

I agree I have no sps and all my lps and softies are growing good under cree led's except green toadstool, but that didnt grow under my t5's either.

 

[jlnielsen13]

Thanks for all the replies:

I will try to provide a bit more info:

It is a 90 gallon tank with normal dimensions.
They are mounted into the hood so about 8 inches over the water.
The AI Sols are fully programable-love that feature!!
I have 14 different settings of which NONE get over 40%... I had to cut that way down because of initial problems with bleaching.
I do have mostly LPS and tons of Softies- That is sadly because I had thousands of dollars and dozens of pieces die from the switch to LED's- which i did slowly and carefully.

The reason I started this thread is some of my friends that were hanging on to loving these lights longer than I did have sadly now joined the party... After a couple of years you just start to see things degrade!

I will post some more pics in chrono order so you can see what has happened below:

The next photo is a real interesting one: This is 1 month after the switch! Notice the 3 large pieces of favia including a nice prism favia. ALso look around to see lots of digitata frags, an easy to keep sps. SADLY- all of those are gone after living for years under halide. Check photo below

In this next pic - notice all the huge ricordea- around 100 pieces and also the monti caps. Sadly all gone as well. It is my opinion that ricordea HATE LEDS for long periods of time. Look great but don't thrive like they did for years under my halides.

After time, many are now calling me to say they understand what I was saying 4 months ago now and their reef is starting to show signs.

I do realize that some are having great success... I just wonder if that will last. I do appreciate all the suggestions but really have tried everything you guys suggested. It is hard to admit that the new wave in lighting isn't as good as the old.. Especially when you have invested so much money and research and also because they look so cool and are so convenient and programmable. I think though that it is important to share your experiences even if they hurt because maybe you can help others!

This last picture is in my backyard... I built this with my own two hands about 6 years ago. The dimensions are 25 feet long with a 6 foot waterfall and it is lighted by the best source in the world that no one can argue about..... THE SUN !

thanks
jim