Petco Picasso "mislabel" thread

[elegance coral]

Maybe the price for low grade Picasso's are simply going down???????
Check this out. http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f326/what-type-of-clownfish-is-this-150470.html

 

[clowns101]

I belive ORA is sending these fish out to the store knowing what they are.My loacal store has them and sells them for $19.99.He knows that they are suposed to be higher priced,but he is selling them for that famous $19.99 price becasue of the LOW price he payed for them.He had a tank of probobly 35-50~ of them.He sayed its what they have been sending him for misbars.So who knows.This was just last week,so either they have to many ORA grade B clowns and are shipping them out as misbars,or they are being nice and cutting people a break!Who knows!

 

[dz6t]

I think this whole thread started with someone could not tell a Picasso, semi-picasso from a mis-bar. Mis-bar are cheap and they are going for regular clownfish price even from Doni's reef.
FYI, ORA only send a pair of grade A picasso to each store at one time.

 

[elegance coral]

I belive ORA is sending these fish out to the store knowing what they are.My loacal store has them and sells them for $19.99.He knows that they are suposed to be higher priced,but he is selling them for that famous $19.99 price becasue of the LOW price he payed for them.He had a tank of probobly 35-50~ of them.He sayed its what they have been sending him for misbars.So who knows.This was just last week,so either they have to many ORA grade B clowns and are shipping them out as misbars,or they are being nice and cutting people a break!Who knows!

I think you bring up a good point. ORA has been selectively breeding/inbreeding these fish for quite a few years now. If the percentage of fish with Picasso like traits has gone up in each clutch, they may simply have more low grade Picasso's than they can offload at the higher price. If this is true, they have a choice. Cull the low grade Picasso's so they can sell a few at higher prices, or sell them all at a lower price. They're not in the business of keeping these fish as pets. They need to sell them to make room for the next batch. If all of this is true, we may see a price drop in all Picasso's before to long. How many people, other than some of us clown fish freaks, will pay $150 for a grade A when you can get the fish in the link I posted for $20?

 

[WDLV]

I think there are just soooo many being bred by so many different sources that the supply is vastly outcompeting with demand. So the grade Bs go for cheap maybe even a grade A here and there. I don't think it's a market strategy so much as an attempt to unload excess stock. Whether that be on the part of the wholesaler or the retailer is immaterial. Keep in mind something that has affected my whole hobby in the last couple of years.... You can only keep so many clownfish in one tank and keeping a dozen tanks is a real PITA if you're not doing it for a living. So, once the average single tank household has one pair of clowns that can live for like 25-30 years in captivity, how do you sell more? You either have to bring in more new hobbyists to the saltwater side or you have to rely on the existing hobbyists to keep killing them without getting out of the hobby.

If I wanted to bring in more FW hobbyists or just people off the street I'd be trying to sell attractive fish for attractive prices... but thats not really a new concept.

 

[clowns101]

I think you bring up a good point. ORA has been selectively breeding/inbreeding these fish for quite a few years now. If the percentage of fish with Picasso like traits has gone up in each clutch, they may simply have more low grade Picasso's than they can offload at the higher price. If this is true, they have a choice. Cull the low grade Picasso's so they can sell a few at higher prices, or sell them all at a lower price. They're not in the business of keeping these fish as pets. They need to sell them to make room for the next batch. If all of this is true, we may see a price drop in all Picasso's before to long. How many people, other than some of us clown fish freaks, will pay $150 for a grade A when you can get the fish in the link I posted for $20?

Thanks!That was what I was trying to say but couldnt get it out quite right.I agree with every thing you said!

 

[MarinaP]

Maybe the price for low grade Picasso's are simply going down???????
Check this out. http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f326/what-type-of-clownfish-is-this-150470.html

That fish looks like undenourised, disfigured freak. It should have never entered the market.

 

[elegance coral]

That fish looks like undenourised, disfigured freak. It should have never entered the market.

LOL. And I thought I was critical about clowns. I see a slight under bite, but other than that, all I see is a young fish that should mature just fine. What part of that fish leads you to believe it's "undenourised"?

 

[bues0022]

I think this whole thread started with someone could not tell a Picasso, semi-picasso from a mis-bar. Mis-bar are cheap and they are going for regular clownfish price even from Doni's reef.
FYI, ORA only send a pair of grade A picasso to each store at one time.

I am well aware of the labeling of picasso's and semi-picasso clownfish. I started the thread as a "food for thought" to gauge what other people's opinions were about the recent influx of people getting clownfish with better patterning from a Petco for really cheap. Clowns101 and Elegance Coral are likely on the right track.

That fish looks like undenourised, disfigured freak. It should have never entered the market.

MarinaP - bad night tonight? It doesn't look that bad:lolspin:

 

[MarinaP]

What part of that fish leads you to believe it's "undenourised"?

That's the least of his problems. Compare him to random Rod's offsprings

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1549934&highlight=bucket+clowns

or rkelman's o's. Those are fat and happy. I am not even going to bring WC percs into comparison.

His whole body is wrong. It is astounding how low the bar for CB clowns has been dropped with "designer" variants. Very few breeders try to produce quality and not quantity.

 

[bues0022]

eh, he's a little goofed up, but somebody loves him! There's good and bad ones from each clutch - no matter who raised them. Should they have been culled? that's a whole different can of worms.

 

[elegance coral]

That's the least of his problems. Compare him to random Rod's offsprings

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1549934&highlight=bucket+clowns

or rkelman's o's. Those are fat and happy. I am not even going to bring WC percs into comparison.

His whole body is wrong. It is astounding how low the bar for CB clowns has been dropped with "designer" variants. Very few breeders try to produce quality and not quantity.

The fish in the link is a year old, according to the OP. The fish I posted is just a baby. It will fill in as it grows up. A year from now, with some good food and care, it will look completely different. Most captive bred fish go through that ugly duckling, teenage time when they don't look "fat and happy".

The fish on the left in this pic doesn't look all that different from the one in the thread I posted.

Here's the same female today. Well actually on the 4th. of July.
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She's not perfect. I see few captive bred fish that are. She's still pretty and healthy IMHO. She also seems to be living a pretty good quality of life, I guess. Would you rather a breeder cull all these fish?

 

[savageAJC]

I don't really see muchj wrong with that clown. I would have swooped it up for 20 in a heartbeat sweet looking clown

 

[dz6t]

I am well aware of the labeling of picasso's and semi-picasso clownfish. I started the thread as a "food for thought" to gauge what other people's opinions were about the recent influx of people getting clownfish with better patterning from a Petco for really cheap. Clowns101 and Elegance Coral are likely on the right track.


MarinaP - bad night tonight? It doesn't look that bad:lolspin:

The examples you gave to support your theory all showed mis-bar, none of them were even semi.
Instead of more quality grade A or semi, the market is flooded with mis-bar and deformed fish. LFS as well as chain stores are passing them as Picasso.
On the other hand, Doni's reef keep lowering her standard for Grade A and B. Just take a look of what are on her website today.
LiveAquaria is selling some grade B pair for $175 in diver's den.
A LFS in my area is passing grade B (very nice one though) as grade A and asking for $150 per fish.
A locate chain store has not yet able to get good quality semi recently (the manger is a great guy who can tell the difference)

Also, how often do you see a good pair of grade A show up on Doni? I know recently a local guy just paid $250 + shipping for a pair of very small but high quality grade A.

BTW, do you own a pair of picasso?

 

[dz6t]

She's not perfect. I see few captive bred fish that are. She's still pretty and healthy IMHO. She also seems to be living a pretty good quality of life, I guess. Would you rather a breeder cull all these fish?

Those are regular or mis bars, not even close to a semi picasso.

 

[elegance coral]

Those are regular or mis bars, not even close to a semi picasso.

My goodness.:hmm3: I know what the fish are. We weren't talking about the markings of the fish. We were talking about the structure of the fish. Things like skull shape, muscle mass, and body proportions.

 

[MarinaP]

In the past few years, once "designer" clowns gained popularity, public perception of a normal CB clown shifted to accept subpar fish because of its' cool markings. Body structure, symmetry of fins, skull shape, gills, bite are sacrificed to produce unusual patterns in mass quantity.

I have nothing against well-formed, bright colored, proportionate clowns with more (or less) white. I am strongly against turning breeding efforts into puppy mills' scheme that produces mediocre offsprings with undesirable genetic traits.

To answer EC's question about culling - I would have culled that fish because of the underbite without a doubt.

 

[WDLV]

I wouldn't have bought that clown either.... I'm not as good at putting my finger on it as well as Marina is. I would have just thought he looks pale, skinny and something just doesn't look right. I didn't think the underbite was that obvious but on second look, it is definately there.

If I ever succeed in breeding my rare species, I hope I have the intestinal fortitude to either cull the weak ones or else keep them and never sell them.

 

[landlord]

If I ever succeed in breeding my rare species, I hope I have the intestinal fortitude to either cull the weak ones or else keep them and never sell them.

I choose the latter, my tomatos occassionally come out with bulldog looking faces, underbites, etc... They make great dither fish.

 

[hawgdawg]

What's the big deal about slightly deformed fish? These fish are not being introduced into the wild and therefore will never affect phenotypes of wild populations. So really it boils down to who is buying the fish. If it looks good to you, then buy it. What if we culled every dog or cat that is not perfect? Don't think that would ever fly. Just because they are "less than perfect" doesn't mean they should be condemned to death! Give the poor little fishes a break, be happy that the deformed fish in question hopefully found a loving home!