PG&E surcharges coming soon to a bill

[chicken]

https://www.pge.com/en_US/residenti...tionYR_email_20161206_wave1_pge_com/highusage

This looks scary. They are saying the PUC has not set the rates yet but it looks like from their example the sucharge will be in the $0.40 range. I am assuming since they said his is a surcharge this will be on top of the ~$0.20 a kw/h base charge. If that's the case we as a community are going to be screwed unless you have solar. Anyone have more details??

 

[Julius Chen]

My electricity bill is 3-4x of water and gas combined.

Is PG&E more monopoly than water and gas?

 

[sfsuphysics]

The really scary thing, their chopping the tiers down to 1, so that there will basically be a baseline, and a "high energy" surcharge.

I'm absolutely freaked about how they're going to fabricate it though, they use terms like "baseline" way too damn often, so am I going to have the same baseline as I do now? Which is absolutely horrible in San Francisco (think like 7kWh per day during the Summer). And if they do, you know that first tier (only one) is going to be more expensive than the the current first tier is.

PG&E keeps talking about how they're not doing these changes to make money that this is the cost of providing electricity, well I want to know if that is true why do I have a baseline that's lower than someone in the east bay? does it cost more to send electricity to me?

Looking at this data though, you'll be "high usage" (surcharge) if you're 4x your baseline, which currently I am not. Also curious which schedule I'm on with solar panels I don't pay month to month, but pay by year, although they do record the monthly usage and charge me accordingly, i.e not a yearly average of baseline.

 

[andyman]

just get those solar panels installed. super cheap nowdays. my electric bill was $6 last month.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

San Bruno Fee?

 

[Am17]

The really scary thing, their chopping the tiers down to 1, so that there will basically be a baseline, and a "high energy" surcharge.

I'm absolutely freaked about how they're going to fabricate it though, they use terms like "baseline" way too damn often, so am I going to have the same baseline as I do now? Which is absolutely horrible in San Francisco (think like 7kWh per day during the Summer). And if they do, you know that first tier (only one) is going to be more expensive than the the current first tier is.

PG&E keeps talking about how they're not doing these changes to make money that this is the cost of providing electricity, well I want to know if that is true why do I have a baseline that's lower than someone in the east bay? does it cost more to send electricity to me?

Looking at this data though, you'll be "high usage" (surcharge) if you're 4x your baseline, which currently I am not. Also curious which schedule I'm on with solar panels I don't pay month to month, but pay by year, although they do record the monthly usage and charge me accordingly, i.e not a yearly average of baseline.

I'm curious to know why you'd even be on E1 if you have solar. I believe the E6/E7 rate plans (which this surcharge doesn't apply to) are far more generous to their solar customers. All solar customers pay once a year, we carry a true-up balance. Check your bill or the PGE site to see which schedule you're currently on.

 

[scuzy]

So i got on solar and since i was solar and my true up was turns out to be like $200 a month i started using more and added another tank now my true up double back to non solar days. Need to decomm a tank now hehe. oh this hobby how it sucks you in.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

So i got on solar and since i was solar and my true up was turns out to be like $200 a month i started using more and added another tank now my true up double back to non solar days. Need to decomm a tank now hehe. oh this hobby how it sucks you in.

Lol. We got solar when it was just the Wifey and I. Now, two kids later and we're using double the electricity we were using before... Our solar covers about half our usage. It used to be almost 100%.

 

[Meshmez]

I'm curious to know why you'd even be on E1 if you have solar. I believe the E6/E7 rate plans (which this surcharge doesn't apply to) are far more generous to their solar customers. All solar customers pay once a year, we carry a true-up balance. Check your bill or the PGE site to see which schedule you're currently on.

I'm on E1 also. E6/E7 is time of use which can actually mess you up depending on when you use electricity. during summer i generate power mostly during partial peak, and use power mostly during peak. according to the charts below from the E6 schedule, if i was on E6, when im generating during partial peak its giving me credit at $0.22780 /kwh. when im using during peak its charging me at $0.34307/kwh. so basically my solar power system would have to generate much more power than i actually use in order to equal out and get a $0 true up. with E1 its a 1:1 ratio if i generate 10kwh and use 10kwh in a day, I'm at $0. period.


Summer (service from May 1 through October 31):
Peak: 1:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. Monday through Friday
Partial-Peak: 10:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.
AND 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. Monday through Friday
Plus 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Saturday and Sunday
Off-Peak: All other times including Holidays.

Total Energy Rates $ per kWh) PEAK PART-PEAK OFF-PEAK
Summer Baseline Usage $0.34307 (I) $0.22780 (I) $0.15102 (I)
101% - 200% of Baseline $0.40230 (I) $0.28703 (I) $0.21026 (I)
Over 200% of Baseline $0.56171 (I) $0.44644 (I) $0.36966 (I)

Sorry, i know this is getting away from the OP

 

[scuzy]

I wish my roof could handle more panels. I could only get a 3.5kw system


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[aakinego]

During the summer I produce way more at peak than I use. But you can no longer get on the E6 plan.

 

[Breadman03]

The Tesla Powercell should be of interest for you folks.

 

[Meshmez]

During the summer I produce way more at peak than I use. But you can no longer get on the E6 plan.

you produce more from 1pm-7pm than you use? are your panels mostly pointed west?

 

[wwu123]

you produce more from 1pm-7pm than you use? are your panels mostly pointed west?

Does that sound unusual? I think that'd be true for many people, esp those that don't have or need central A/C.

My panels face south, and due to trees my solar production is pretty much done by 4 pm in the summer. But don't really start using power for cooking or lights until 6 pm or later in the summer, so much solar generation from 1 pm to 4 pm is greater than what is used from 1pm-7pm, really even til 10 pm.

 

[Meshmez]

depends on the day, but during summer my AC normally kicks on around 2pm and most of my usage is 2pm-9pm. my solar production peaks at noon, so only about 40% of my production is between 1pm and 7pm.

without AC it might not be as big of an issue. my ac unfortunately sways my usage highly to the "peak" side.

also, apparently in a couple years, peak is set to move to 3pm-7pm... which would be even worse. but who knows what will change by the time that actually comes around.

 

[wwu123]

Understand, yes A/C would make a huge difference - Bay area is really the land of micro-climates. Without needing A/C on the peninsula, my usage doesn't start increasing in the evening until 6 or 7 pm. Only 40% of my solar production is from 1pm-7pm also, and only 6% after 4pm. Though partly I don't need A/C because the west-facing trees that shade my solar panels in the afternoon also shade my house and roof in the summer. Much more efficient to not need electricity in the first place, than to offset it with solar.

Since I'm on E6 TOU, I should note that I consciously start my LED tank lighting each morning around 6:30 am, ramping up to peak from 7 am to about 1 pm. After 1 pm I start tapering down steadily so by 4 pm and into the evening, the light is enough for me to view the tank inhabitants but providing not much PAR for growth. That way I'm not using as much summer peak electricity. The fish and coral haven't seemed to care when is day or night compared to outdoors.

Granted a few hundred watts of tank lighting is nothing compared to 3-5KW of A/C compressor kicking on. PG&E's flattening of Tier 3 and Tier 4 rates a while back should have helped heavy A/C users somewhat, whether on E1 or E6 TOU since both have tiered rates.

 

[Am17]

I'm on E1 also. E6/E7 is time of use which can actually mess you up depending on when you use electricity. during summer i generate power mostly during partial peak, and use power mostly during peak. according to the charts below from the E6 schedule, if i was on E6, when im generating during partial peak its giving me credit at $0.22780 /kwh. when im using during peak its charging me at $0.34307/kwh. so basically my solar power system would have to generate much more power than i actually use in order to equal out and get a $0 true up. with E1 its a 1:1 ratio if i generate 10kwh and use 10kwh in a day, I'm at $0. period.

Sorry, i know this is getting away from the OP

Family generally starts arriving home between 4-5pm, and being that peak production from solar generally kicks in during peak hours we rarely have to worry about drawing from PGE. Have you tried investing in a smart thermostat? That and investing in some R8 flex duct has made our ac system significantly more efficient. We have panels facing east/west/south. The south by far and none product the most, but east and west show similar production.

 

[Meshmez]

Family generally starts arriving home between 4-5pm, and being that peak production from solar generally kicks in during peak hours we rarely have to worry about drawing from PGE. Have you tried investing in a smart thermostat? That and investing in some R8 flex duct has made our ac system significantly more efficient. We have panels facing east/west/south. The south by far and none product the most, but east and west show similar production.

I have a nest thermostat set to 78. that keeps the room with the tank at around 80-82 during the peak of summer.

I guess if you use a ton of electricity off peak (charging a car maybe) and dont use much during peak, you would come out ahead. or if youre in a situation where you dont use much during peak, you could undersize your system because you make extra credit during peak production.

for me its easier to keep track of and works better to have a 1:1 ratio.

 

[sfsuphysics]

I'm curious to know why you'd even be on E1 if you have solar. I believe the E6/E7 rate plans (which this surcharge doesn't apply to) are far more generous to their solar customers. All solar customers pay once a year, we carry a true-up balance. Check your bill or the PGE site to see which schedule you're currently on.

You're right, it may not apply to me. According to my bill it says my rate schedule is "NEMS B net energy metering" it doesn't say which E that is.

 

[whodah]

Although not 100% on topic, it is still kind of interesting... The cost-per-tier over several years.

I wish the comments would show up, but for whatever reason, they aren't. Here they are:

A: 2002-05-01: Territory R, Base Code B (That is, Fresno and typical customers) Winter baseline = 12.7 and Summer 17.5 kWh/day.

B: 2006-05-01: Territory R, Base Code B (That is, Fresno and typical customers) Winter baseline = 12.1 and Summer 17.6 kWh/day.

C: 2008-05-01: Territory R, Base Code B (That is, Fresno and typical customers) Winter baseline = 12.3 (raised) and Summer 18.1 (raised) kWh/day.

D: Tier5 eliminated. Although still reported, it is the same as Tier4.

E: 2008-05-01: Territory R, Base Code B (That is, Fresno and typical customers) Winter baseline = 11.7 (lowered) and Summer 17.1 (lowered) kWh/day.

F: 2014-08-01: Territory R, Base Code B (That is, Fresno and typical customers) Winter baseline = 15.6 (raised) and Summer 11.0 (lowered) kWh/day.

G: (which shows up in June of 2016, but not on the chart) New tier structure: Tier2 = 101-200% baseline, Tier3 = over 200%


If you want to see the chart interactively:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...yTo/pubchart?oid=408452327&format=interactive