PhosFree by Natural Chemistry evaluation.

[mbingha]

And yet there are countless other threads that have postings saying phosfree is safe? And other posts saying they dose it for many months with no problems.

Randy is one of the most knowledgeable chemists and one of the leading contributors to the hobby. I would trust what he says as far as toxicity of an additive. Especially if you are a novice ,which judging by your water roaches comment it sounds like you are.

 

[Themonsterisme]

Randy is one of the most knowledgeable chemists and one of the leading contributors to the hobby. I would trust what he says as far as toxicity of an additive. Especially if you are a novice ,which judging by your water roaches comment it sounds like you are.

+100 if I ever see randy post on something I heed his advise...you would do best to do the same...did you even understand what he was trying to explain to you? If you continue to use the product after being forewarned then whatever happens can only be on you because you didn't heed his warnings

 

[shermanator]

And yet there are countless other threads that have postings saying phosfree is safe? And other posts saying they dose it for many months with no problems.

But knowing it contains Zn (it does, look at the MSDS for PhosFree) and that Zn has been shown to cause toxicity. And knowing there are alternative products that don't contain Zn (like SeaKlear), it's unwise to continue using or advocate using a product with Zn.

 

[tmz]

I agree it's a terrible choice. If there are "countless threads: showing Phos Free is safe for salt water aqauriums ; where are they? I've read hundreds if not a thousand or more posts on lanthaum and haven't found them. Only a few have tried it and nothing indicates safe use in terms of zinc toxicity. . If it's used for just curing live rock it's still a horrible choice, the zinc will likely stick to the rock.

Further ,the described dosing techniques leading to cloudy water are horrible and put animals at high risk even if a pure lanthanum additive was used.

It's important to make an effort to study up on lanthanum dosing before modeling harmful methods for others and irresponsible to advocate methods that can and have done harm to the life we keep.

 

[Moorepower]

Search phosfree. Or natural chemistry phosfree. Even on some of the lith pages they say phosfree is the same as seaklean just cheaper and a little weaker might want to try commercial phosfree. I have kept a few tanks and yes I would call myself a novice BUT on all the pages saying phosfree is safe and they have been using for months with no problems not one post says this stuff is toxic. If it did I would have bought the other stuff.

 

[Moorepower]

Then take up your cause and go search phosfree and post this so people like me do not get bad advice

 

[Moorepower]

Right here did not have to look hard under the posting lanthanum chloride
He uses phosfree in his tank. And there are many more out there also. Page 4 so go free find the pages and post on them about phosfree so people like me will not get as info.

Here is a quick photo

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Then take up your cause and go search phosfree and post this so people like me do not get bad advice


Exactly. That is precisely why I am posting warnings here.

Some organisms are far more resistant to zinc than others, some by a factor of 100 or more. For most, the longer the exposure, the stronger is the effect. Some effects take many days to show up. If you loose one of those "shrimp" you saw a week from now, will you attribute it to the additive? Will you even notice?

The problem with a comment like "it worked for me" is that it may be exclusive to your tank system and the creatures you keep, and yet new reef keepers may not recognize the dangers that are obvious to folks who are familiar with the scientific papers on the subject. In fact, you have few of the sorts of organisms that are most sensitive. Fish are fairly insensitive.

The toxicity of zinc to marine invertebrates is not a matter of opinion. It is a clearly established scientific fact, and you can pull up many free pdfs online which show exactly how much causes what effects, and which show that you likely dosed more than the safe limit, even when "starting slowly".

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Even on some of the lith pages they say phosfree is the same as seaklean just cheaper

Anyone who claims that is obviously ignorant of the chemicals they are using. Are you claiming that to be true?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Right here did not have to look hard under the posting lanthanum chloride

Uh, maybe not.

I see that person posted they used Phosfree +. That may be a different product than you are using, if you are just using Phosfree (couldn't find one labeled as they posted). They have many products, some of which do not contain the zinc or the aluminum. Phosfree Extra Strength, for example, is only lanthanum. You might want to check the labels and preferably use that instead.

 

[tmz]

The MDS lists substances harmful to the environment or otherwise considered hazardous. Phosfree lists zinc in it's MDS . Phosfree Extra Stregth does not .Seaklear does not . They' re not the same .They would be required to list zinc in an mds. If I had to guess they might use the zinc as an algacide in the Phosfree product which has much less lanthanum ;safe enough for pools but not reef tanks.

For those who didn't read the toxicity information Randy posted earlier this is from it:

"..Mance and Yates (1984) reviewed data on the toxicity of zinc to marine organisms. The authors found invertebrates to be generally more sensitive than the fish species studies, while, effects on marine macro and microalgae were noted at concentrations slightly lower than reported for invertebrates.."

 

[EnderTurtle]

Well I hope this isn't somehow connected to the white film that blew all over my tank when I left my pump out to dry.

Also my corals, crabs, copapods, and snails seem to be doing fine at the moment. I do not plan on dosing phosfree into my tank.

 

[tmz]

Right here did not have to look hard under the posting lanthanum chloride
He uses phosfree in his tank. And there are many more out there also. Page 4 so go free find the pages and post on them about phosfree so people like me will not get as info.

Here is a quick photo

That post is from five years ago. There is a discussion about content of the then phosfree plus as it was named at that time in several places through out the 1200 post 48 page thread. The only active ingredients on the mds were lanthanum chloride with some lanthanum sulfate very similar to the Seaklear mds at that time and the Phosfree Extra Strength contents listed now.
Product names and formulas change .
The mds for the Phospfree product with the zinc and aluminum being discussed in this thread has an issue date of 12/02,2013.I think it's a newer pool product using some combinations and much lower lanthanum concentrations which are not safe for an aquarium .

 

[Decadence]

Randy, where did you find technical data about zinc and aluminum in phosfree? The only data that I could find stated that it was lanthanum chloride, lanthanum sulfate and water. Perhaps one of their other products (phosfree plus?) is the one which contains zinc?

 

[tmz]

The mds for the Phosfree product with the zinc and aluminum being discussed in this thread has an issue date of 12/02,2013 post#33

The mds currently available for Phosfree has an issue date of 08/02/14;it does not list zinc .

 

[Decadence]

The mds for the Phosfree product with the zinc and aluminum being discussed in this thread has an issue date of 12/02,2013 post#33

The mds currently available for Phosfree has an issue date of 08/02/14;it does not list zinc .

I don't know how I missed the very last line of the very last post. Thanks. I'm trying to figure out if my phosfree is going to be safe or not. All of the information that I could find on it stated that it was just lanthanum chloride and lanthanum sulfate besides for this thread but Randy's word is as good as gold so it had me confused. I figured there were multiple products.

 

[120g]

Any update with this product affecting your reef tank?
Because I been using phosfree commercial strength for two months now so far my coral and fish are doing great

 

[Sk8r]

PolyFilter can adsorb zinc, and it might be well to run it, with 20% water changes, until you have changed out about a total volume of all tank water.

 

[tmz]

The white haze is from inadequate predosing filtation and/or dosing too fast. It is likely from free lanthanum , lanthanum phosaphte or palanthanum carbonate. It is harmful to fish and filter feeders. I've seen a yellow tank drop dead after swimming through a small cloud.

Another caveat , manufacturer's of pool products do change the content of their products from time to time and may include algacides at one point or another since there primary use is clear pool water. Whatever product you choose to use check the contents closely.

 

[zeusfc]

Sorry to reopen an old thread, but I've been looking at the MSDS for Phos free today; the formula appears to have been changed in September 2014, and now does NOT have zinc in the retail product...
My local pool store had both the old and new product (new labels) but neither had any mention of zinc.
Anyhow, I've got a serious phosphate problem with my incoming water, so it was worth picking it up for the pool, and I have about 40lb of dry live rock needing to be Phos free, so I felt it was worth the purchase price...

Now can anyone give me any idea how much to use (for the rock, not the pool! )