Phosphate and Phosar HC question

[92reefer]

I've been battling a long time Phosphate problem in my tank.

Have never been able to measure any Phosphate but figured it's there and is the main reason for my stubborn algae problems.

I recently bought a Two Little Fishies Phosphate Reactor and added a canister of PHOSAR HC (high capacity) on June 7.

Since I never could read any phosphates in my tank anyway, how will I know when the PHOSAR HC is done?

Is there a general rule? I have a 92 gallon reef tank with very low bioload (1 sm yellow tang and 1 sand sifting star)

 

[tmz]

Some observe nuisance algae waxing and waning as signs of inorganic phosphate absorbtion by the media and exhaustion , respectively. There is no general rule, although even if not exhausted the media will likely accumulate bacteria over time , leading to most changing it every month or so. With high phosphates in the water it can exhausts in days.

 

[bertoni]

I agree. In many systems, bacterial sliming (very technical term) is likely the limiting factor. A GFO can adsorb a lot of phosphate.

 

[kgross]

I will also add what test kit are you using to measure your phosphate with. Many of them do not work well at the very low levels we should have in a reef tank, but without being able to test, I always suggest to change it out once a month, and if you have a good working test kit, you can try to figure out how much you need to last a month so you not dumping good gfo the garbage.

 

[92reefer]

well the PHOSAR HC is not cheap.

Will this stuff leach phosphates back into the aquarium if it's exhausted? I hope not.

On that note is there a cheaper phosphate removal material that doesn't leach back to the aquarium?

 

[92reefer]

well the PHOSAR HC is not cheap.

Will this stuff leach phosphates back into the aquarium if it's exhausted? I hope not.

On that note is there a cheaper phosphate removal material that doesn't leach back to the aquarium?

 

[tmz]

I believe most absorbents will equilibrate with the water around them. That is, if the tank water is at P04 level lower than the media , it will "leach" some back. This is an unlikely situation, however. More likely it will just stop removing any and the tank will have higher PO4. Testing the effluent from the phosphate removing reactor, canister filter, etc. should help in determining exhaustion.

i haven't used Phosar hc and don't know it's price. All gfo is costly. Bulk Reef Supply HC gfo works well,in my experience, and is competitively priced.

 

[bertoni]

I wouldn't worry about GFO leaching phosphate. The binding reaction is discussed here:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php

The belief is that the phosphate replaces OH<-> in the matrix, which would difficult to reverse, I think, in a tank.

 

[92reefer]

TMZ. I used to use Salifert but gave up because it never read anything and the local fish stores didn't have any better test kit than Salifert.

I was using Warner Marine's Phosar HC. It was about 45 bucks for 400 grams and I used in the Two Little Fishies Phosphate Reactor column off advice from Uberfrags. The entire 400g container filled the reactor to about 3/4 way. And if 45 bucks only gets me about 6-8 weeks, well I can't afford that!

I checked out bulk reef supply and they sell granular (not HC=high capacity) GFO 1 gallon for about 50-60 bucks.

Is that what you're using? If that works good I can deal with that price better cause the 1 gallon should last a LOT longer!

 

[stanlalee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15679274#post15679274 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 92reefer
TMZ. I used to use Salifert but gave up because it never read anything and the local fish stores didn't have any better test kit than Salifert.

I was using Warner Marine's Phosar HC. It was about 45 bucks for 400 grams and I used in the Two Little Fishies Phosphate Reactor column off advice from Uberfrags. The entire 400g container filled the reactor to about 3/4 way. And if 45 bucks only gets me about 6-8 weeks, well I can't afford that!

I checked out bulk reef supply and they sell granular (not HC=high capacity) GFO 1 gallon for about 50-60 bucks.

Is that what you're using? If that works good I can deal with that price better cause the 1 gallon should last a LOT longer!

they only recommend using 1 tablespoon per 20g. I'm not sure how much that is in grams but based on 3 tablespoons I used (double the recommended amount) and what I have left in the 400g container I'm quite sure the amount you used was WAYYYYYYY excessive. I cant imagine using the whole container on a 90 gallon. HC has (so they say) twice the capacity so that 4lbs of what your looking at would only require purchasing 2lbs of HC. 400g of WM HC cost about $48 while 453g of BRS HC is about $38. Also once phosphates are down it will last longer and/or you can use less.

I'm also convinced WM pellets and HC are the EXACT same product as BRS pellets and HC based on EVERYTHING except outright admittance.

 

[92reefer]

So stanlalee.

Would I be better off buying a bunch of the GFO pellets or granular from BRS?

I wonder if I should mix GFO with some carbon in that reactor?

 

[stanlalee]

I ran granular for about 6 months before switching to warner HC ( I only used warner over BRS because it was part of a larger order from marine depot). the HC is alot cleaner (less dust) and I have a small tank so cost is really not that big a deal. Based on cost (BRS HC slightly over twice the cost of granular at recommended dosages) its really a toss up. BRS is definately cheaper than WM and most others. I use GFO in the bottom of my reactor and seachem matrix carbon up higher tightly sandwiched between the second diffuser plate and sponge plate on top so it doesn't tumble but the GFO does. this works well for me. I can blow my GFO up to vulcano proportions and still the carbon doesn't tumble. Like I said though I have a 30g so reactor capacity is not an issue. you probably are better off using two reactors for a 90g especially if you choose not to use HC.

 

[92reefer]

Hey Stan.

I see that BRS is offering 1 gallon of Rox carbon free with a 1 gallon purchase of their HC GFO.

I wonder if I should go for that from a savings standpoint.

I'm thinking I could run the HC GFO on the bottom like you do and then add the ROX Carbon above it in my TLF reactor?

 

[Billybeau1]

Many run GFO and carbon together. It is the best of both worlds IMO. And it doesn't get much better than Rox.

Sounds like a great deal.

 

[92reefer]

Great. Thanks to everyone for the advice.

I'm going to order some GFO and ROX from BRS

 

[92reefer]

does anyone know of a better deal out there right now on GFO?

I didn't want to buy a gallon of it but seems like getting 1 gallon of ROX carbon is a good deal (from BRS)

Would cost about 175 for the GFO gallon + shipping.

 

[92reefer]

anyone have any coupon codes for BRS?

 

[HighlandReefer]

The regular GFO sold by BRS is good. It may take a little more than the high capacity, but in the long run will be cheaper to use to remove phosphate with.

 

[92reefer]

Yep. I can't see spending close to 200 on GFO but the free gallon of carbon was attractive. I think I need to run carbon with GFO in my reactor and I don't have any right now?

I also see that the pellets are about the same price as the regular granules.

Would that be a better choice to use in my TLF reactor? Coupon codes?

 

[HighlandReefer]

Granules or pellets is more of a person choice IMHO. The idea is not to have the GFO escape out of your reactor into your tank. Some claim granules are better & others the opposite. I have used both and don't see much difference. When running GFO in a reactor you want to have it bubble a bit to keep it from binding together. If you bubble it to much, small pieces will brake off and escape. Some feel the pellets don't brake as easily.