Picasso clowns

[Eggyoke]

So I went to a LFS and found these clownfish listed as picasso clownfish. I've been out of the reefing world for a bit and didn't know all about these designer fish. A little research and found out they are wyoming white clowns.

 

[shifty51008]

Is there a question somewhere?

 

[CoralsAddiction]

They actually look more like Platinum clowns. some stores and breeders sell them as extreme picassos.

 

[Eggyoke]

I couldn't get a good shot with the LED lights. Not sure what they are but I feel I got a good deal on them, two for forty. I did not ask a question just posting a pic of my new fish. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[shifty51008]

Ohhh ok, no worries. As long as you like the clowns thats what matters. To me that is ugly just because of all the white, but i think alot of designers are ugly lol. Still sounds like you got a great deal on them. Congrats

 

[hotelbravo]

I like the platinum look on those designer clowns but I prefer the black ice look. Congrats on your pair good deal on them

 

[ThRoewer]

Some stores around here charge $150 each for these. When they asked me if I'm interested I told them for me to take them they would need to give me money and also cover the cost of housing them.

 

[ILikeURWrasse]

Platinums are still pretty designer clowns. Buy them if you really like the look.

 

[ThRoewer]

If I want to spend a crazy amount of money on clownfish I rather spend it on some latezonatus, chrysogaster, latifasciatus, ...

 

[shifty51008]

latezonatus, chrysogaster, latifasciatus, ...

can i stop drooling now?. I would add in leucokranos, and thiellie to the list.

 

[ThRoewer]

Amphiprion leucokranos is a "naturally occurring hybrid between A. chrysopterus and A. sandaracinos, with the fish being experimentally created in captivity. Its hybrid status was confirmed in 2015 with consistent ecological, morphological and genetic evidence."
(Wikipedia)

For that reason I wouldn't shell out a lot of money for a leucocranus as you can "make" it yourself by pairing a Solomon Island chrysopterus and a sandaracinos. Their offspring will be "Amphiprion leucokranos" (which shouldn't really be a valid species at this point)

Amphiprion thiellie is almost certainly a natural hybrid as well.

 

[shifty51008]

I know they are hybrids, i am working on creating them. Pairing is a issue. But i have a couple pairs that are getting along somewhat.

 

[ThRoewer]

I think the trick is to start with just post metamorphosis babies and put only one of each together in an anemone to get as close to the natural process as possible.
Juveniles or adults may be harder to pair up.

 

[davocean]

Classic, 2 guys that profess their hatred of designers and and non natural clowns discussing their "how to's" of creating hybrids!:spin1:

 

[ThRoewer]

This is about recreating a naturally occurring hybrid, not creating something new just for the novelty of it. The latter is usually the driver behind new designer hybrids.

Though since A. leucocranus (or more correctly A. chrysopterus x A. sandaracinos) is now a confirmed hybrid. I'm not really interested in it.

I would rather focus my energy on other, more interesting and rather under represented Amphiprion species. Right now I'm kind of leaning towards getting a pair of latezonatus.

 

[davocean]

Well you do understand that a picasso originally came from the wild and someone just decided to continue what happened naturally in the wild right?

 

[shifty51008]

Classic, 2 guys that profess their hatred of designers and and non natural clowns discussing their "how to's" of creating hybrids!:spin1:

Lmao.

I never said i was against designer clowns, but i dont care for the looks of them. I am against when breeders imbreed so much to where the clowns are so deformed yet they just give it a fancy name and charge a pretty penny for them, like stubby clowns.

And yes there are alot of designer clowns that are found in the wild. I forget his name but he has a few video's of designers in the wild.

For all we know all the clowns we see in the wild could be a hybrid of some type, they may have looked way differnt 500 years ago.

 

[ThRoewer]

Well, the naturally occurring Picassos don't look much like what you find in stores now.

In those you find in stores today the Picasso gene has been "purified" and brought to an extreme through repeated incest and selection.
Often they also have been hybridized with the black Darwin clowns or ocellaris.

If the Picassos were just a maintained form of the wild percula strain without any alteration towards the extreme I wouldn't have a problem. It is the overdoing I have a problem with.

 

[davocean]

Well I definitely agree w/ both of you there in responsible breeding, and this includes all clowns and other TB fish, designer, hybrid, or otherwise.

 

[ThRoewer]

...
For all we know all the clowns we see in the wild could be a hybrid of some type, they may have looked way differnt 500 years ago.

A few of them are the result of a hybridization event (genetically proven) but only a small portion of the species we see now. Also that was a couple of million years ago when our ancestors were still some ape-like creatures in Africa.
Evolution progresses in most cases very slowly and 500 years ago the species of today looked the same as they look now, including humans.
Some clownfish haven't changed much for millions of years, with latezonatus being the oldest with about 8 million years.
Ocellaris branched of the percula tree only about 3 million years ago.
The most recent known branch off is between PNG percula and Solomon Island onyx around maybe 500.000 years ago.
The original ancestor of all clownfish likely looked pretty close to a mix of a modern day A. percula, P. biaculeatus and A. latezonatus.

BTW: with the exception of native Africans most humans have some Neanderthal DNA, which indicates a hybridization event circa 45,000 to 80,000 years ago, right after **** sapiens spread from Africa but before it spread to the rest of the world. (Edit: Since when is the scientific genus name of humans a bad word?)