Pink milli

[trueblackpercula]

Hello all need some advise again,

I have a pink millipora that was very dark pink as you can see from the picture. It is now getting very light in color but still have great pylop extension and is in medium/high flow and mid way in the tank under a 400 watt radium 20k bulb on an icecap ballast now. should it be higher up in the tank? i just added the bulb three days ago and before that she was under a 400 10k ushio for about three weeks before I changed out the bulb (it was already getting lighter before the bulb change)

I also see new growth and it seems to be fine, i just dont understand whats wrong. I feel like i am just wasting my time with trying to keep a reeftank again.....this is what i hate about this hobby.I try so hard to stay ontop of my tank and so much money and still i just cant keep acros i have to be doing something wrong.
I also add 5 gallons of RO/DI water every 5 to 6 days
my tank is:
P04=0.03
DKH=8.5
CALCIUM= 465
SALINATY=1.026
NITRATE= 0
LIGHTING SUPER ACTINICS 150WATTS FROM 9:00AM UNTIL 10PM
400WATTS 20K FROM 3PM UINTIL 8PM
IODINE 4 DROPS ONCE A WEEK
VODKA DOSING 1.6ML A DAY
WATER CHANGES ONCE A MONTH 10 GALLONS REEF CYRSTALS
RANDYS TWO PART DOSED AT 40 MLS A DAY PLUS HOME MADE MAGNISIUM 1/4 CUP EVERY TWO WEEKS
TEMP 27 CEL

one yellow tail damsel......4 emerald crabs and 2 turbo snails and live sand

As always thanks for evryones help on this one.

THREE WEEKS AGO

AS OF TODAY

FRONT VIEW

SIDE VIEW .....IT LOOKS A LOT BRIGHTER IN THIS PICTURE THEN ACTUAL IS.

CLOSE UP SIDE VIEW

BEFOEW THE BULB CHANGE

 

[cmaxwell39]

My first thought is in regard to topoff. You state that you add 5-6 gallons a week in top off, but is this done via an auto topoff, or at least done daily? You don't want to swing your salinity by adding it all at once, or even just a couple of times a week.

Secondly, I am wondering if your nutrients are too low. With only one small fish in that tank there can't be much for waste. I have found that my corals acutually color up better for me if I keep my phophate in the .05-.07 (hannah) range and have .2-1.0 nitrate (Salifert). Maybe try adding some more fish and feeding a bit more to see if colors will return. Even doing this is not an overnight solution. May take a few weeks to a few months to notice a change.

Not sure either of these are your problem, but just some thoughts I had. HTH.

 

[trueblackpercula]

yhea i know about the fish thing and i am more in touch with the SPs then the fish but i guess its time to start buying some fish. i guess 120 gallon tank should have soem fish lol.

as for the top off i add it all at once on saturdays. i will start adding the 5 to 6 gallons over the corse of the entire day by dripping it VIA tubing.

thanks for the assistance

 

[Ralph ATL]

add a fish or two, or stop carbon dosing as you don't have enough nutrients to warrant carbon dosing with 1 little fishy....

amino acid supplements can help, too...

 

[trueblackpercula]

add a fish or two, or stop carbon dosing as you don't have enough nutrients to warrant carbon dosing with 1 little fishy....

amino acid supplements can help, too...

The reason I dose carbon is to reduce the nutrients that feed the algea. If I stop dosing vodka how will I control P04 and Nitrates?

Amino Acids will only cause the nutrients level to get to high to fast and cause algae blooms and diatom blooms from my past experience.

I also already have a deep sand bed loaded with nutrients 5" deep. Not trying to go at you at all I just do not understand the Fish thing. If thats the case why not just shut off my skimmer?

Also I Started to feed myh SPS with coral V power that is also loaded with nutrients.............Oh boy this is getting complicated.

 

[cmaxwell39]

as for the top off i add it all at once on saturdays. i will start adding the 5 to 6 gallons over the corse of the entire day by dripping it VIA tubing.

I would invest in an auto topoff or at the very least get in the habit of topping off every day. SPS need stable water parameters, and salintiy is one of these key ones.

When I first started up my SPS QT, I didn't have an auto top off on it. I was having trouble keeping SPS through my QT time (4-6 weeks) until I started manully topping off twice a day. Now I am still only using a gallon to a gallon and a half a week (QT volume of about 7 gallons) but the stability was finally there where the SPS could handle the slight swings in salinity. Even once a day was not stable enough for this small tank with SPS that were being dipped (read--under stress anyway) to make sure pests were not introduced into the display.

 

[dabandit]

too much iodine maybe? seems odd youd have to dose so much with so little demand for it in the tank. Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt saltmix have all that good stuff in it in a strong enough dose for a lightlly coral stocked tank?
Seems odd youd have to dose anything for that matter for your current coral stock.

 

[trueblackpercula]

I would invest in an auto topoff or at the very least get in the habit of topping off every day. SPS need stable water parameters, and salintiy is one of these key ones.

Hello cmaxwell39
Thank you for the information and advice I am sure stability is key and that is what I am looking for. I didn't realize how important salinity would be and that it would affect the color of my SPS, but that is virtually imposable for me to utilize a top off.
Not only is my nearest water supply in my house two full floors downstairs but I work. So I guess adding top off water will have to be done manually of the course of a day or two.

 

[trueblackpercula]

too much iodine maybe? seems odd youd have to dose so much with so little demand for it in the tank. Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt saltmix have all that good stuff in it in a strong enough dose for a lightlly coral stocked tank?
Seems odd youd have to dose anything for that matter for your current coral stock.

hello dabandit

again not trying to insult anyone and your point is well taken but,I have read on many occasions that Iodine is of the utmost importance when trying to achieve sps color and health. I have always added it to all my tanks and felt this would be no different with this set up. Do you have any supporting documentation that says not to add it? Here is a reefcentral link that I found very interesting.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1887748

here is a paper written on the subject:
"Guide of SPS coral coloration (make them more vivid, bright)
Posted on September 3rd, 2008 by Ryan Gripp 8 Comments

This guide endeavors to assist you with the ever popular SPS coral. This was written by member Shadowramy and it explains specific ideas and strategies in which you can do to affect the color of your corals. This assumes you have a more then basic understanding of water parameters in your tank. Click the read link to start reading about coloring in SPS corals.

In the past I have been asked a lot about coral colorization as well as wanted to satisfy my own curiosity about specific methods to achieving certain colors. Usually I am asked, “How do you get good colors?” Which I then ask, “What specific color are you looking to enhance?” Over the past several months I have really worked on “tweaking” colors and what is needed to get certain colors. I have done my own testing as well as seen a lot of others tanks and what they have done to achieve certain colors. I think I finally have a basic map for those who are interested.
Please note: I am assuming that you meet the minimum suggested standards to keeping SPS; strong lighting, calcium at the appropriate levels, strong skimming and live rock.

Yellows
Highly dependent on Nitrate and PO4 levels. Of course all SPS colors are highly dependent on lack of N and P so I wanted to start with probably the easiest color to get, yellow. Yellows are sort of you baseline; yellows will tell you a lot about what is going on in your tank, what is needed and what is overdosed. Nitrate and/or PO4 reduction is most important, either through technical means such as nitrate/phosphate reducers or biologically through DSB, Carbon dosing and/or water changes and fuges. Basically, if you want to do SPS, I would suggest starting with an acropora that is yellow. If you can get it to say yellow for several months, you should be ready for something else.


Greens
Greens would be the next easiest color to tweak. Most green coloration can be achieved through the addition of an Iron Concentrate (Kents is what I use, however Iron is Iron). You must be very careful with Iron because it is also an Algae accelerator; this is why it is so important for you to get your yellows colors first (your N and P will be lowered).
Additionally, I use my yellows as indicators for my greens and blues. You'll notice a deficiancy if your greens are brown color or they are paling in color. I start off by dosing Iron at about 1 drop per 50 usg twice a week and take note of what happens, color changes, Algae growth, until my yellow acroporas display a green shimmer (it wont be a solid green but a shimmer of a green/yellow).
Please note, a sign of overdosing is a darkening of tissue, when this happens you have added too much iron or too much iron is being added. Another sign of overdosing is Algae growth, stop immediately and possibly do a water change if necessary. Like everything else reef, go slowly.

Blues and some purples
This is mainly for blues but I have found is can also have an effect on purples. The supplement for this is Potassium Iodide Concentrate or Lugol’s solution, ESV Potassium Iodide Concentrate will also work; don’t just get something that says Potassium because that is a little different. Dosing should be done when blue colors become less intense. Again, using yellow corals as indicators, stop dosing when yellow corals display a green shimmer.


Reds/Pinks and some Purples
Primarily for coloring reds and pinks in Montiporas, Pocilloporas, Birdsnest, other Stys and Seriatoporas. The supplement is Potassium (not potassium iodide). If you are using a high potassium salt mix such as Oceanic, Tropical Marine Pro and you are doing regular water changes, you are more than likely not going to need to supplement this much.
For dosing you can use your monitporas, especially caps as indicators. Supplementing is required when Montiporas display slower growth and appear washed out to grey appearance. Indicators on Stys and Pocs are when they look like they have been exposed to air. Polyps are completely withdrawn and colors are light. Other indicators of potassium deficiency is when the pinks turn into a light brown and when acroporas loose their color and get lighter and pale. A major potassium deficiency is seen when tissue is lost, mostly starting from the base opposed to spotting (patchy look). And overdose can lead to tip burning so don’t mistake tip burn for new growth. Tips burns will be white with no polyps.


Purples
Probably one of the hardest coloration of all acroporas from my experience since it is a combination of several variables.
First and foremost is water clarity, which means Carbon and/or filter socks. I have also had good result from biological filters such as using cryptic zones, which produce seasquirts, sponges and other filter feeding animals. Zeo Sponge Power, which can be used in any system, feeds sponges. Sponges are great because they can filter a mass amount of water for better water clarity.
From what I have noted, increased water clarify will first effect SPS tips but not the complete base. I have seen nana and valida with really nice purple tips but brown/tan/white bases. I have seen the same nana and valida in another’s tanks, which met all other parameters with a full purple from base to tip.
Second being lighting. From my observations of my own tank and others, purples seem to love 420-440nm range light spectrum, those found in actinics and 20K halides. Some of the best purples I have seen are in tanks that have 440nm blue actinics (ATI Blue+, Giessman Actinic) or 20K Halides (Radium, XM 20K).
Third, supplements such as Iodide and Potassium (see blues and Reds/Pinks). Again, make sure your greens are green and yellows are yellow. Your blue should be bright with depth. Iodide will also help if you have tip burn.
These are just my observations through testing and I am sure in the future other factors will be seen and added. Please feel free to comment with your own observations, data is very important to moving forward."

 

[Ralph ATL]

Yes, you are doing everything correct to remove nutrients from a bioload, however, at this time you don't have one(barely)....I was suggesing things that you could do, one of them, or any nber of them or all to now help with your question that you posed. At least until you got a heavier bioload....add some Amino acids (just a little) once a week....etc...don't do anything excessive.....

The reason I dose carbon is to reduce the nutrients that feed the algea. If I stop dosing vodka how will I control P04 and Nitrates?

Amino Acids will only cause the nutrients level to get to high to fast and cause algae blooms and diatom blooms from my past experience.

I also already have a deep sand bed loaded with nutrients 5" deep. Not trying to go at you at all I just do not understand the Fish thing. If thats the case why not just shut off my skimmer?

Also I Started to feed myh SPS with coral V power that is also loaded with nutrients.............Oh boy this is getting complicated.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Yes, you are doing everything correct to remove nutrients from a bioload, however, at this time you don't have one(barely)....I was suggesing things that you could do, one of them, or any nber of them or all to now help with your question that you posed. At least until you got a heavier bioload....add some Amino acids (just a little) once a week....etc...don't do anything excessive.....

again thank you for your advise, here is a vey interesting thread about AA

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1998102

 

[Dapg8gt]

Are you testing iodine before dosing? And isn't it possible to set up an ATO? that stability could be why SPS are not 100%.. That's prob a good swing in salinity going a whole week without topping off. They can be done on the cheap from autotopoff dot com. Or the tunze ozmolator is awesome and pretty stealth looking. I gather from your responses you are dead set on your practices but suggestions are always a good thing to take into account when something isn't going well. Just sayin.

BTW love the setup that thing is gonna be awesome when it's all grown up .

 

[aqua80]

Hello cmaxwell39
Thank you for the information and advice I am sure stability is key and that is what I am looking for. I didn't realize how important salinity would be and that it would affect the color of my SPS, but that is virtually imposable for me to utilize a top off.
Not only is my nearest water supply in my house two full floors downstairs but I work. So I guess adding top off water will have to be done manually of the course of a day or two.

auto top-off is a must ! you have to find a place to have a 5-10g ro/di reserve and put an osmolator in it...
Don't understand how working or having the water source 2 floors down could make this impossible ?

also agree on more fish or less nutrients export... I would stop carbon dosing and continue gfo to control phosphates...
a good cleaning crew (snails, urchins, herbivore fish...) let the corals get good colors and growth and then fine tune the nutrient import/export...

HTH !

 

[Dexters Reef]

I have never run iodine, and my tanks are great. I dont add anything I dont test to measure levels of. I keep a variety of SPS that are healthy and colorful. I only dose alk and ca 3x a day via dosing pumps, and manually add amino acids and carbs/energy every other day. I dont have any phosphate or nitrate issues, and dont use vodka dosing or excessive carbon (except for some chemipure bags). I use a 4" DSB.

I also do not use an ATO due to space limitations. I manually add about 2g of RODI water every 2 days so the levels dont swing too much. Maybe try adding the water daily instead of weekly?

My SPS all colored up nicely after I increased my bioload by adding more fish also

 

[dabandit]

No worries,no offence taken just a discussion. I know at higher levels iodine can hurt coral....yes it is important but a good saltmix should have a proper dose,your monthly water change replenishes that dosage. If theres low demand for iodine the amount found in your mix should be adequate....like the saying goes if you cant test for it dont add it. I've been keeping all types of coral about 10 years never have I dosed iodine,when my tank was fully stocked end for end with coral I did however have to dose calcium. But for a tank stocked as lightly as yours I very much doubt you would have to dose anything.
No literature to support that just experience. If youve allways added it and allways had problems....... try not dosing it for a while wont cost anything or hurt anything to try,good luck

 

[dabandit]

Found this in a quick search hope it helps;
Supplementing Iodine
Many aquarists dose iodine, and claim that certain organisms need it to thrive. Often mentioned are shrimp, Xenia species of soft corals, mushroom corals, and more. However, no evidence for an iodine requirement by these organisms appears anywhere in the scientific literature. They also thrive quite well in many coral reef aquaria where iodine is not dosed. Of Reef Central's Tanks of the Month for the past couple of years, the majority do not supplement with any form of iodine (or at least do not mention doing so), although some certainly do dose it.

I do not presently dose iodine to my aquarium, and I do not recommend that others do so, either. Iodine dosing is much more complicated than dosing other ions due to its substantial number of different naturally existing forms, the number of different forms that aquarists actually dose, the fact that all of these forms can interconvert in reef aquaria, and the fact that the available test kits detect only a subset of the total forms present. This complexity, coupled with the fact that no commonly kept reef aquarium species are known to require significant iodine, suggests that dosing is unnecessary and problematic. On the other hand, it is nevertheless possible that some organisms that we keep do actually benefit from iodine, and that in some aquaria there is not enough in the foods that we add so that supplements may possibly be beneficial in those aquaria.

I dosed iodine for several years when I first set up my aquarium. I dosed substantial amounts of iodide to try to maintain 0.02 to 0.04 ppm of iodide (which is a natural level). Iodide is rapidly depleted as algae and perhaps other organisms take it up and convert it into organic forms. After a few years of dosing iodide, I became frustrated with the complexities of testing for it, so at that point I stopped dosing any supplemental iodine. That was about seven years ago. I detected no changes in any organisms, and never dosed any again. If you are dosing iodine now, I suggest stopping for a month or two, and seeing if you can objectively detect any difference in any organism.

For these reasons, I especially advise aquarists NOT to try to maintain a specific iodine concentration using supplementation and test kits. For those who do supplement iodine, I suggest iodide as a more suitable form than certain other additives, such as Lugol's iodine, which is unnatural and potentially more toxic. Iodide is also more readily used than iodate by some organisms, and iodide is detected by both currently available iodine test kits (Seachem and Salifert).

Further information on iodine can be found in these articles:

Iodine in Marine Aquaria: Part I
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm

Iodine in Reef Tanks 2: Effects on Macroalgal Growth
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2003/chem.htm

 

[tripdad]

I would feed the coral and see what happens. light colors are usually due to lack of nutrients in my tank. Have you always run the tank the same way? Sometimes you have to let the natural nutrient export systems get up to speed, in other words if you have always had supplemental ways of stripping nutrients from day one perhaps this has kept the natural methods from getting fully developed and grown in. You are going to get algae from time to time the key is to help the tank adjust to it, assuming you have rock and a sand bed of course. Use the additional methods only when there is evidence the natural processes can't keep up. With only one fish or so you may only have enough bacteria to deal with one fishes waste so no reserve to handle a heavy feeding or two, etc. Balance it out and see what happens, it is easy to get overloaded with all the available information but don't try and adapt it all if you don't need to. Also make only one change at a time not many. Good luck

 

[brad65ford]

Pink Milli

Pink Milli

Don't shoot me if its not a pink milli or not since I can't see colors very well, it might be a rose (I can't tell the difference). I feel your pain since this milli is one of my all time favorite. I've had ups and downs with this coral till I increased my volume, added newly fresh live rock and started dosing two part also now do 7-10 percent water changes a week. These photos are less then a month apart, as you can tell i'm very happy with the results. :bounce1:

 

[trueblackpercula]

auto top-off is a must ! you have to find a place to have a 5-10g ro/di reserve and put an osmolator in it...
Don't understand how working or having the water source 2 floors down could make this impossible ?

also agree on more fish or less nutrients export... I would stop carbon dosing and continue gfo to control phosphates...
a good cleaning crew (snails, urchins, herbivore fish...) let the corals get good colors and growth and then fine tune the nutrient import/export...

HTH !

thanks you very much for your advice, but i have 120 gallons in the main display tank and a 20 gallon sump..............so if i add 5 to 6 gallons to that how much will it affect my salinty? its always at 1,026 so again so what is the need for an ATO? my tank is not small so how much of an affect am i having?
i dont think this is the problem/ but thanks

 

[jpacker1508]

TrueBlackPercula, Here is my 2cents. I seems like after reading your post and replys that you are doing your various maintainance tasks because you read they were the right things to do not because your tank needs them. The Thing that give your coral color is algea. It looks like your system is too sterile. Algea blooms happen when your nutrients get out of balance.

As for your top off. 10 bucks at home depot will get you a nice rubbermaid container with a top. throw a MJ1200 in the bottom plumbed up to a ATO and your all set. I fill mine weekly and have it hooked up to a kalk reactor and have all but elliminated my 2 part dosing and gotten all my perameters rock solid.

Good luck man. And remember, do the things your tank needs not what YOU THINK it needs. Being too proactive can be just as bad as ignoring it.