Pistol shrimp vs mantis shrimp question

[nmotz]

So, I just ordered a G. Smithii to replace my G. Chiragra that passed away unexpectedly. In the mean time, I bought a 2" pistol shrimp that appears to be the kind that is symbiotic with anemones. I got it to help sift through and clean the substrate. Supposedly they are more aggressive than other types of pistol shrimp but you will hear a different opinion about that from nearly every aquarium hobbyist you talk to. I've combed the net and seen some say that their pistol shrimp butchered every ornamental shrimp in the tank and some swear that their's is not aggressive at all. I got it to help sift through and clean the substrate.

Anyway, the point is, does anyone have any evidence to suggest that a mantis shrimp can't take on a pistol shrimp? I know my new G. Smithii will probably immediately hunt down and kill the pistol, but should I be worried about the mantis getting hurt in the process? Has anyone ever seen a mantis fight a pistol shrimp? I assume the mantis wins no problem but I've never heard anyone talk about it.

 

[Gonodactylus]

All things are relative. It depends on the size of the two animals. A 2 inch snapping shrimp can kill a gonodactyloid if it gets a clean head-on shot. The stomatopod can knock off the chelaped of the snapping shrimp if it can approach from the side. I know of only one published paper on interactions between snapping shrimps and stomatopods and that was by Nancy Knowlton in the 70's. She did report cases of Alpheus killing Gonodactylus.

Roy

 

[nmotz]

Hmm...thanks Dr. Caldwell, looks like I'm going to need another tank. Don't want to risk my new G. Smithii.

 

[Steve C]

There some interesting theories in an old copy of Coral magazine, Nov-Dec 2010 which has some really good mantis articles and a theory of why Goby's and pistol shrimps live together in regards to the interaction with Mantis shrimp. If you have an IPad or Iphone you can download it for free. I am not entirely convinced by it but its a good read. In a territorial interaction I would think depending on size who ever struck first would come out on top.

I also have a couple of pistols as well.

 

[Islandoftiki]

I'm a big fan of pistol shrimp/goby combos as well as mantis shrimp. My tiger pistol and YWG combo are the highlight of my 10 gallon tank.

If that guy is an anemone hosting shrimp, you should set him up in a small tank with some nems to hang out with.

 

[nmotz]

Yeah I'm kinda torn about what to do with her...she's an Alpheus Armatus and pairs with a Curly-que or Corkscrew Anemone (Bartholomea annulata). That species of anemone is quite unattractive in my opinion, but I know she would be more active and confident if paired with one.

She is pretty fun to watch though. Always digging and moving stuff around, and she had an altercation with my boxer crab today that was really entertaining. The crab tried to dig underneath the rock that she was hiding under, and she started popping him like crazy. :uzi:

The cracking sound was about as loud as a mantis striking a snail's shell. It was effective too...the boxer crab ran out waving his anemones around his head and there was a distinct crack along the top of its shell. It seems to be moving around ok, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if it died because it took some pretty close shots and she probably hit him at least 4-5 times before he got away.

She's also pregnant, which may also explain why she was being so territorial. Whatever the reason, I can tell that this pistol shrimp is not the docile type that most people seem to have in their aquariums.

 

[Islandoftiki]

My pistol shrimp is constantly having to fire off warning shots at the cleaner shrimp. They're such food whores that they'll reach into their cave to try to catch a food pellet that happened to fall in there. Everybody respects the pistol shrimp when he lays down the law. That said, he could care less about anyone but his goby unless they're mucking about his den. The poor nassarius snails probably get popped more than anything else. They always manage to get too close and he'll pop them a couple times, they'll scoot away as fast as possible, but he gets impatient and picks them up and deposits them away from the den. It's pretty funny to watch. He sure likes his goby.

My pom pom crab never does anything interesting, unless you count hiding out at the back of the tank interesting.

 

[Kharn]

My pistol shrimp is constantly having to fire off warning shots at the cleaner shrimp.

Ironic someone on a different forum more local brought up a similar "question" (although your stating an experience)....his question was can you actually keep a Pistol Shrimp & Cleaner Shrimp together, his answer is in this very educating BBC video specifically on Pistol Shrimp & Cleaner Shrimp....

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XC6I8iPiHT8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Perhaps this explains why your Pistol Shrimp is targeting attacks your Cleaner Shrimp...considering those Cleaners can cost $120 down here....I would NEVER put one in with a Pistol Shrimp...

 

[nmotz]

Kharn, I've seen that vid before a few times and that is the same species I have, or at least it's in the same group. The pistol in the video is one of 5 variations (A. armatus, roquensis, immaculatus, and two others that I can't remember) that look almost exactly alike and are found from the east coast of Brazil to Florida. Mine is an A. Armatus and I think the one in the video is too, but mine is smaller.

There are two small feeder shrimp that are still in my tank and they haven't gotten close enough to my pistol's burrow to bother her yet. I fed her a small piece of frozen shrimp last night and the 3 hermits (blue leg) came sniffing around. She would pop them until they stayed in their shell, then pick them out and deliberately throw them out as far from the burrow as possible.

She went totally berserk on the boxer crab though....maybe she got stung by the anemones? I don't know, but she came out of her burrow a little ways to chase after it. The crab did survive though... I saw it this morning in a new burrow it dug into the substrate beneath the LR.

I'm thinking about just buying a 2.5 gallon tank or something really small like that with just her in it. That way I can feed her live feeder shrimp and watch her shoot them down.

Of course, I'd love to watch her go toe-to-toe with my new mantis :smokin: (arriving next week), but I don't think she'd make a very easy meal at all. Plus, I kinda like ill-tempered pets and she is as grumpy as could be. I've never seen her species at any of the LFS' in my area and from what I've read they are kinda hard to find anywhere.

 

[Kharn]

Of course, I'd love to watch her go toe-to-toe with my new mantis :smokin: (arriving next week).

I wouldn't do that, If there is a chance it can actually kill/maim the stomatopod it won't go into my tank, all the live crabs are carefully chosen size:size so the stomatopod isn't overwhelmed or caught off guard.

Initially when I added large live crabs for The Juggernaut to whack on I was very worried about him getting hurt...I wouldn't even pick the muddies up as they were so on the go, slippery and large enough to brake fingers...my biggest scare was when a muddy actually did latch onto The Juggernaut with a claw and I instantly panicked not knowing what to..should I intervene or would that cause more damage, I didn't know what to do but after about a 10-15sec pause of both combatants the crab let go and the stomatopod continued its assault after correcting itself eventually beating the crab to submission then death.

 

[Fartin'Gary]

I wouldn't do that either. I got two pistols from the pet store in my food shrimp bag and put them in my ten gallon reef tank. A pistol that was maybe an inch long killed a 2" fish of mine and ate it. They also dug up everything. They are very loud too for their size. The pistol and mantis would probably be sharing the same type of living space and would definitely come to blows for territory.

 

[Islandoftiki]

I'm pretty sure that video of the pistol shirmp killing a cleaner shrimp is staged. My guess is they stuck them in a small tank together with no choice but to attack each other.

My tiger pistol shrimp is about as non-confrontational as they come. The only time he snaps is when folks get too close to his den, and then they're not really targeted attacks, just warning shots.

I'm sure different varieties and individual pistol shrimp have different temperaments.

 

[Kharn]

I'm pretty sure that video of the pistol shirmp killing a cleaner shrimp is staged. My guess is they stuck them in a small tank together with no choice but to attack each other.

My tiger pistol shrimp is about as non-confrontational as they come. The only time he snaps is when folks get too close to his den, and then they're not really targeted attacks, just warning shots.

I'm sure different varieties and individual pistol shrimp have different temperaments.

Firstly cleaner shrimp have absolutely no line of offense/defense so it was certainly NOT going to "combat" the pistol...Secondly most if not all pistol to knowledge are essentially blind...if it don't know it, BLAST IT!

This is the point that I am trying to get across NOT the whole 1 animal specifically targeting another animal...

In one hand you got an 100yr old, Blind guy with an itchy trigger finger and to top it off he is holding in his hands the worlds most powerful gun, awkwardly waving it about as he talks to himself...unknown to the old blind man is that there is a 'naked women' running at him just dieing to give him a clean & massage his joints...she catches him off guard when they collide...

BAM!!!!
Bits of Naked women fly everywhere...
Blind Old Man says "Hello...Is someone there?"

 

[nmotz]

Island, this sequence might have been staged for the video, but that particular species of pistol shrimp is known for killing live prey, not simply scavenging. Tiger pistol shrimp and Randall's pistol shrimp (commonly available species) are both fairly docile and don't often strike live prey, preferring to scavenge instead.

Last night, my pistol shrimp attacked and killed a small feeder shrimp that entered her burrow to get some of the frozen pieces of mysis shrimp that I had just fed her. The feeder shrimp was able to crawl away, but later died and was eaten by my hermit crabs.

She also fought with my boxer crab again. The stupid thing came into her burrow, waving its anemones at her and she violently attacked him, even coming out of her burrow to look for him after he had hidden himself in the LR. She came at him pistol blazing, and not just warning shots. There were bits of gravel and sand flying everywhere.

As far as other species of pistol shrimp, like your Tiger...I think it is still possible that they would kill if they weren't able to find anything else to eat. Or, as Kharn suggested, they still might kill passers-by because they don't see very well and might start haphazardly attacking anything that comes close.

My plan right now is to remove the pistol and put her in a 2.5 gallon tank by herself. I agree that it is too much of a risk to my new mantis.

 

[Islandoftiki]

Wow, that sounds like a nasty little pistol shrimp! Definitely a good candidate for a dedicated tank.

I keep having this vision of building a triptych of pico tanks side by side on a custom stand; all plumbed into a common sump to house some of these wacky critters that need their own homes. Of course, when I start adding up the costs to build such a system in my head, I come back to reality. Like this, but with salt water: http://youtu.be/FRY2DyeSAhw

I'm surprised that my goby hasn't ever suffered any damage from a stray snap. The two are often so close to each other when he's snapping that you would think she would get hit, but she doesn't even flinch.

 

[Kharn]

I keep having this vision of building a triptych of pico tanks side by side on a custom stand; all plumbed into a common sump to house some of these wacky critters that need their own homes. Of course, when I start adding up the costs to build such a system in my head, I come back to reality.

Essentially this is what I have done with 'My Ultimate Multi Mantis System'...except it's stomatopod specific & I do not care about how much I spend as I have NO 'hold backs'.

 

[nmotz]

Check this link out for a really interesting video of some experiments done by students at a Florida university to see how A. Armatus defend their host anemone from fire worms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYxluzkeUc0

My pistol does the same thing when her burrow is threatened. She'll run out and put the "gun" right up close to whatever she's snapping at and click off a few shots, sometimes trying to grab a hold of them with her other claw to keep them still.

Island, I want to do that too! In a perfect world where keeping nano tanks is both easy and cheap, I would buy five 10G tanks and link them all to one large (20G+) sump, RO/DI, top notch lighting system, the works. I'd get two pistols and two mantids (only super aggressive, ill tempered individuals!) and designate the last tank for live food. Fill that sump up with chaeto algae, UV sterilizer, protein skimmer, and LR...man, that'd be sweet.