Please Critique my latest 215 design

REEFKEEPA
Looks good, hahnmeister, stugray, ChemE gave you some great suggestions. I just add this in on your closed loop, I assume your going to use the right size plumping to maximize flow, 2-45s instead of 90s where you can...

So I would suggest you consider penductors on your outlets. You might have to do some math to determine how many outlets you can have with your pump. You can achieve around 10000gph of water movement with even a dart pump (12 of head rating is the min).

Tee off your "return to sump line" to divert desired amount off water to your skimmer put in the appropriate valves.

Nice Drawing.

Roland
 
Definately make the intake of the CL bigger than the output holes. If you don't, you'll most likely get serious cavitation. For example, I had an Eheim 1262 on a 1" intake and 1" outlet and still cavitation and I'm sure you pump will be pushing more than my 950GPH. I suggest minimum 1.5" inlet, but 2" may be better.
 
There will be additional plumbing in the tank,
I am working on the front view now but am caught up in rebuilding the house.
As far as the intake is concerned If the pump has a 1" intake and a 1" output Whats the Diff?I'm looking at the Iwaki MD 100RLT
 
I thought cavitation was a property imposed on a propeller,
Where water boils under lower or higher pressure and creates air bubbles.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6984582#post6984582 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REEFKEEPA
There will be additional plumbing in the tank,
I am working on the front view now but am caught up in rebuilding the house.
As far as the intake is concerned If the pump has a 1" intake and a 1" output Whats the Diff?I'm looking at the Iwaki MD 100RLT
Click to expand...

That is a pressure pump. And 90s and other back pressure wonââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t be so much of an issue compared to a dart pump. On the closed loop cavitations not likely (but possable if something blocks your intake, have good a big strainer or a bunch of small ones). But in a small inlet line will affect flow rate more than the outlet side. I would use 1 1/2 inlet. I would also run use 1 1/4" or 1 1/2 outlet at least to the 1st tee then reduce to 1" if you want.

Iwaki MD 100RLT it even a better choice to use with pentuctors. You could 10000gph easy with that pump with 5 or 6 nozzles. It kind of a high amp pump in todayââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s age of amperage watching but I really like them. I would not use that pump without the penductors, theirs better chooses

Roland
 
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ROUGH FRONT VIEW

ROUGH FRONT VIEW

14364Front_view-Model.jpg

Ok this is a "ROUGH DRAWING"
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6984608#post6984608 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REEFKEEPA
I thought cavitation was a property imposed on a propeller,
Where water boils under lower or higher pressure and creates air bubbles.
Click to expand...

You are correct, and the pumps impeller is just that, a prop, so to speak. By having a small inlet, you will be starving the pump of water the pump will be trying to move more volume then it is provided. Even if you have a 1in inlet on the pump, the 1" all the way from the tank to the pump, and all the elbows in there creates alot of backpressure and will reduce the flow. If this happens when the pump tried to move more volume than is provided, the pressure drops and air bubbles will form creating a very noisy and annoying sound. Trust me, just go 1.5" at least at the inlet. If you just choke the pump at the outlet to reduce cavitation then you'll be putting backpressure on the pump which isn't good for it.
 
I have read a lot of posts on Cl design and have come to the conclusion by popular opinion that the only loss is due to friction " minimal" due to the fact that the head is 0 in a cl.
Opinions?
 
It is true that the static head loss is zero because there is no difference in height between the inlet and outlet. However, assuming that dynamic head losses are neglible is fallacious. Remember that skin friction varies linearly with velocity (or radius squared) so doubling the pipe diameter cuts the velocity by 75% which cuts the skin friction by 75%.

I would strongly encourage everyone to use the largest diameter pipe that they can and avoid as many changes in direction as possible. When you have to change direction, use sweeps and not 90's. You're paying a good bit of money for a pump and quite a good bit more to run it 24/7; why not get the most performance that you can? A well thought out piping system costs peanuts compared to the cost of the pump and electricity; yet a poorly designed piping system can castrate a pump.
 
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you ask for opinions heres mine

Pipe friction with your plumping 1" all around and that type of pump IMO, Would reduce performance 10% to 15%. (With a high flow pump you would be looking at 30%- 40%.) That many 90s, tees, bulkheads strainers creates a good bit of friction. The straight pipe minimals, 90s maximals. If it was a direct input from the tank that number would be cut by more than half, heres why.

This is also just an approximation. Say that pump will put out 50' of head pressure max, that same pump can only pull 10' of "vacuum" before losing suction. 5 to 1 That is about the same ratio that friction affects the performance of the pump. one 90 on the input side = five 90s on the output side. this is in the ball park here. That why inputs are more important. This is not exactly right but it easier to get a handle on it this way.

why are you going with that pump?
 
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Let me illustrate the significance of dynamic head loss for you...

This example assumes that dynamic head losses are minimal so we've used pretty narrow pipe and many more 90's than we should
piping1.PNG


In this example we've wised up and increased the pipe diameter and gotten rid of some pipe run and some 90's.
piping2.PNG


That is an extra 800 gph just by increasing the pipe diameter, ditching some 90's, and shortening the pipe runs. If this hadn't been a pressure rated pump the difference would have been even more significant!
 
Thanks guys,
Thats exactly why I posted this thread.
I'ts easy to change stuff on paper. I will take your advice and increase the ID to 1.5 but It will be hard to eliminate any T's or 90's because of the attempted distribution of the return.
I have not posted a "top view pic but was planning on a "ring type manifold with lockline oulets around the perimeter.
The pump is'nt written in stone yet either. It just looks like a good economical pump for my application. I need quiet.
 
If it were me, I'd look long and hard at the Sequence ReeFlo Dart instead. It isn't as much of a pressure rated pump (which is beneficial in a CL since you shouldn't have pressure) so it puts out more gph per watt. It will end up drawing about 1/2 the power as the Iwaki but pumping out 50% more flow.

pump_mdm_sequence_reeflo_dartcurve.jpg


You can see that 12' of head shuts it down whereas the Iwaki is still putting out 1200 gph at 27' of head but then at 0' of head the Dart crushes the Iwaki. That is the difference between a pressure rated pump and a flow rated pump. For a CL, pressure rated = waste of electricity.
 
ChemE

agreed if your not going to use penductors Dart is a much better choise.
i dont have to ball park any more, thats awesome thanks
just what i needed also.

wwwwwwwwwwWAIT it dose not work????

roland
 
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