Please help un-ugly my GBTA!

andrewwl

New member
Hi, I was hoping someone had an anemone that was similar in appearance and found what parameter needed to be changed or what to do to "fix" it.

The anemone's body is very bloated with water and is almost transparent. The tentacles, however, are deflated and look like little nubs.

Tank is 10 gallon with 70W halide. I've had the anemone for a week.

Any help is appreciated, thanks!

anome0.jpg

anome1.jpg
 
First off, you have a good start with the halide light. That said, you will need to make sure to set up a steady light cycle for the anem to adjust to. I recomend a timer. Next you will want to make sure you dont 'light-shock' the anem. make sure it is in an area where it can withdraw out of the light as it feels the need, but can still stretch out and get plenty of light easily. Looks like that has already happened. Test your water params. 1.023-1.025 salinity and absolutely no ammonia nitrates or nitrites are a given. I would recomend checking your ph (8.3 is ideal) and your DKH (9-12 DKH is ideal). This is one of the most overlooked parts of reefkeeping, and in my experience is critical for anemones and most soft corals. Just dont freak if your test indicates your way low in either. massive ph or dkh changes are just as bad as very low readngs. 1 point of ph or 2 points of dkh per day please. Now you need to allow your anem to rebuild its population of zooxanthela (sp?). Thats the algae that lives in its skin. That should happen over the course of a month. Meanwhile you need to make sure it has ample food (not too much). Since it needs to gather its chemical energy from somewhere and you dont want it to draw anything from the zooxanthela regaining their numbers. The food is also going to be needed to rebuild its tentacles that have been shrinking as it consumes itself in order to try and survive. I would recommend first using Selcon to feed it. Just put the medicine dropper right into its mouth and gently deposit a milky blob for it to consume. You did it right if the blob just hangs there motionless. I wouldnt give it any real food until it has regenerated its tentacles. Then, only feed small easily digestable items like mysid shrimp. just baste its tentacles. stop feeding the selcon after it is eating with its tentacles again. I saved two anem that looked very sickly and had torn feet this way.
My_first_LTA.JPG


Here is a pic of my tank. I hope this helps.
 
Salinity should be 1.026. 1.023 is much too low for an anemone.

You should never put anything in an anemones mouth. The food should be soaked in the selcon.

Not giving food until it's tenticles have regenerated? It's starving. I completely disagree.

More information on these anemones here:

www.karensroseanemones.com
 
I didnt know that about the salinity. Good to know.
The selcon feeding is to prevent the possibility of food remaining in the anems gut and rotting. Sickly anem have reduced abilities to digest food and its easy to overfeed a sick animal. Food starts rotting in the anems stomach and then you have a new and more serious issue. The selcon is great to jumpstart the anems system and start the repair and growth of its body. Likely will only take about three feedings of selcon before real food is appropriate. Same reason I urge mysid shrimp for its convalesence. Dont want to start a gut rot. Takes a month to go away and sick animals likely would just die.

P.S. 10 gal is going to be difficult to keep the anem in for the long run. They get big. Also going to need constant monitoring of the water param.

I hope this helps
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9363377#post9363377 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
I didnt know that about the salinity. Good to know.
The selcon feeding is to prevent the possibility of food remaining in the anems gut and rotting. Sickly anem have reduced abilities to digest food and its easy to overfeed a sick animal. Food starts rotting in the anems stomach and then you have a new and more serious issue. The selcon is great to jumpstart the anems system and start the repair and growth of its body. Likely will only take about three feedings of selcon before real food is appropriate. Same reason I urge mysid shrimp for its convalesence. Dont want to start a gut rot. Takes a month to go away and sick animals likely would just die.

P.S. 10 gal is going to be difficult to keep the anem in for the long run. They get big. Also going to need constant monitoring of the water param.

I hope this helps

Please read through the threads here and continue to read through all of karensroseanemones.com. Many people have recovered anemones in worse shape than this using foods soaked in selcon. Small pieces are recommended. You should never touch the mouth of an anemone. This anemone is very unhealthy, if the mouth were injured in anyway, it is likely it would be unable to recover. The selcon is a great start, but not placed in an anemones mouth. Again, this anemone is starving, and needs food soaked in selcon, and for a lot longer than 3 feedings. I do not believe it will suffer from gut rot by giving small portions soaked in selcon immediately.

Yes, a 10 gallon is not ideal for a BTA.
 
I agree fully about the anem needing food. Selcon does have nutritional value and I have used it as a starter food for sick anems before. I do also agree never to put solid food into the mouth of the anem as that can cause it to stress and make things worse. The selcon is a liquid that can easily be (gently) squirted in the mouth of the anem. Like food, just without the chewing or digesting. Much easier for the anem to convert to energy for recovering. And then after its able to take food by itself, you should switch over to solids. The anem will determine the time it takes to start physical food. I have experienced that about 3 servings of selcon and the anems had recovered to where they would take solid food. (One serving every three days or after about 12 days the anem would begin feeding again.)
And dont overfeed once its taking food again, gut rot is difficult to treat in the best of circumstances.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9363722#post9363722 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
I agree fully about the anem needing food. Selcon does have nutritional value and I have used it as a starter food for sick anems before. I do also agree never to put solid food into the mouth of the anem as that can cause it to stress and make things worse. The selcon is a liquid that can easily be (gently) squirted in the mouth of the anem. Like food, just without the chewing or digesting. Much easier for the anem to convert to energy for recovering. And then after its able to take food by itself, you should switch over to solids. The anem will determine the time it takes to start physical food. I have experienced that about 3 servings of selcon and the anems had recovered to where they would take solid food. (One serving every three days or after about 12 days the anem would begin feeding again.)
And dont overfeed once its taking food again, gut rot is difficult to treat in the best of circumstances.

How do you know this anemone is not able to take food by itself? One serving every three days? This anemone needs to be feed more frequently than that. What type of anemone did you do this experiment on? Was it kept in an inadequate salinity during this experiment? How long had it been deprived of food? How do you explain the high success rate here on RC with feeding meaty foods soaked in selcon? Actually I can't ever remember there every being a failure on this site using this method.
 
Looking at the shrunken tentacles makes me leery of how eagerly the anem would take solid food. I agree that selcon should be used on the food being presented to the anem, but would start with just selcon if it is unable to take food by itself. the two smaller LTA in my pics from my first post were both sucessfully reared from pretty withered states using this method. And they both had torn feet at the time when I recieved them. The selcon by itself was the only nourishment they had for about a week and a half as they healed. Mysid served to them would just sit there and their tentacles would barely move. Almost like they were disoriented or unable to use them effectivly. I opted to feed just the selcon as a last resort and it has worked wonderfully. It has been two months since I got them and they are doing great. They are growing rapidly and eagerly take food including pieces of silversides now. I fully credit the Selcon to saving those anemones. I seriously debated tossing them both and thought they were goners (They were in my hand and I had taken them out of the water headed to the bathroom for a flush, stopped and decided to try the selcon by itself.). And all this was in my main anem setup that I do keep at 1.024 sg, 11 dkh, 8.3 ph. I know real seawater is 1.026 sg, but hadnt read that it was needed to keep it at that level for anems. I have experienced that they seem to like alk at 9-11 DKH though. Anything lower and they start looking pretty withered.
 
I just seen your other thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1058606

"Kids! Dont try this at home. I am a profesional and what you see here goes against everything I preach at work."

You can't be serious.

Professional how? Own or work at a LFS and don't even know the proper salinity for the creatures you keep?

Working in a LFS does not qualify you to be a professional.

Hobby experience since 2005 and your already an expert?

I don't think so.

Professionals don't keep that many different species of anemones in one tank. Your RBTA looks horrible, the GBTA is not looking to hot either. I'm actually not seeing anything I would consider thriving in your care. Lots of chemical warfare going on in that over crowded anemone tank.

Please reasearch and see what these creatures are really supposed to look like then research their requirements. You should start to see some improvements in your anemones.

Send a picture of your anemone tank to a professional like Steven Pro, Anthony Calfo or Robert Fenner and have them tell you what you are doing wrong.
 
ouch! nasty personal attack. Bad form.

And 1.024 is ideal for reef aquaria. 1.026 leaves no room for evaporation. reef fish are able to be kept at lower sg 1.015 easily. working at a LFS has nothing to do with a common urban catch phrase. Experience is relative, what have you done? Thats experience. You can talk about anything you have personally experienced. And I urge you to find anything misleading or negative in the advice offered to andrewwl by me. And thank you for posting a link to the amenone tank with a crazy population of damsels and clowns. I like the tank and everything is growing steadily. I regret that my good intentions were so upsetting to you, and hope we can part amicably.

Andrewwl. Remember, everything you find here and elsewhere is anecdotal information passed down from reefer to reefer. unless the person providing advice has accredation, treat everything you hear and read as it is, advice. hope your anem does well.
 
No, not a nasty personal attack, nor is it bad form. I strongly disagree with the advice you are handing out.

If you would go back and read your posts you will see that you come off as Mr. Know it all. Sorry but you haven't backed that up yet with any knowledge or pictures.

No Room for evaporation: research auto top off.

I also see no protein skimmer, thats one of the biggest mistakes in this hobby.

We are not dealing with reef fish here, salinity less than 1.026 does not apply.

So you work at a LFS, don't actually own one? Common urban catch phrase???? See your pictures, thats where my comments are coming from.

You urge me to find anything misleading: I have already, pointed it out, not going to do it again.

That link was supposed to be to the entire thread, not one specific pic. Sorry if I made an error there.

You want to learn about my experience search my threads, also search wetwebmedia.com. Got any more questions about my pics in my gallery about the Gorgonians I've never had, send me some more PM's with your questions, I'll be happy to educate you.

You like the tank and its growing steadily, its your tank, you can like it, doesn't make it healthy, and doesn't mean your anemones like it. As you previously stated, it's been fine for two months, not very long. It's actually a time bomb.

I've asked you to search RC regarding the sucess with feeding meaty foods soaked in selcon. I don't belive you have. But do take the time to do it.

There is no doubt in my mind you came here to help the OP, and I give you credit for trying. But do try to look beyond what you are learning at your LFS.

It is not my intention to bash you. If you have some documented data that supports your recommendation to the OP, I'd would love to read it.
 
Really, no offense meant, but I would agree with RedVipe...it's hard to give advice after two months, too many of everything in your tank, and from what I understand from the explanation, some major losses in the beginning of those two months. You also say the LTA's came with torn feet...I highly doubt this. From having an anem that had a torn foot and seeing another at my LFS(not a regular runofthemill LFS either), I have come to the conclusion that a torn foot cannot heal. We have kept an anem with a torn foot for over 6 months, never to be released from his tray; he will never stick to rock or in sand again. Also, I always dose any frozen meaty foods for anything in my tank with Selcon...I would definitely not stop using it when the anem starts looking healthy. I do, however, agree that 1.023 is acceptable in a reef tank. 1.026 is about as high as you want it. The thing about reefs is they are usually understanding of issues. I've had my tanks over 1.030 and under 1.020 with minimal issue, but you should never get to those ranges(problem with my tss meter) and I would recommend 1.024-1.026. I think this is a happy medium that gives you a little room to play on each side...but not much, so always be careful. NSW is, after all, 34-36PPT in most cases.

Also, using a 90G reef as a hospital for an anemone is asking for disaster. If an anem craps out, bye-bye much of the reef.

Just my $.02. I am by far not an expert and I would not claim myself as one. I did, however, read many books, do a lot of experimenting, and been on these websites for hours every day. Go to rareclownfish.com or anywhere on here and I have a fairly stable(granted, not perfect) track record on information. I try to answer only questions I know or have strong feelings on. If someone asks something on a topic I don't know, many times I will do the legwork for them and do what they should do first: look it up on a few websites and find out what could be off from what they tell me.
 
i agree completely with Cschweitzer and Redvipe
oh and sticking AMino acids inside an anemone will not save it that is silly they need real meaty foods
 
just defending myself here. andreewl can decide for himself what to do. My tank has been running for 6 months. it has been 2 months since my two carpet anems died. (I had just added my RBTA) Otherwise a single clownfish has died in the tank you are refering to.
One single fish.
It jumped out last weekend while I did maintenance. I found it still soggy while I put away my supplies.
I spend all day providing advanced reefkeeping advice for people. I readily admit when I do not know something, and will seek the advice of others who may understand what I do not. I also am quick to provide assistance when someone has an issue. I will only recount what I have personally done and had good results with.
Never tried selcon as a starter food? Try it instead of throwing away your next critical case. Maybe I got lucky, but it worked twice for me and I had given up hope. The two anems had small tears with messentries hanging out and took a month to heal. They still dont like to dig into the sand, but they are expanded and growing while resting on a patch of macroalgae. They are my babies and I spend lots of time worrying over them. I am so glad I didnt flush them. And I still credit selcon.
 
Well, all of the above aside, IME, your anemone looks like it is starving. With due respect to others saying you can't place food "in" an anemones mouth, if the anemone's tentacles aren't sticky, what you may need to do is hold a piece of meaty food (yes, soaked in selcon - some BTAs like krill, others like silversides) lightly against the mouth. The mouth will swell outward and engulf the food. You can release your hold on the food as this occurs. Do not try and shove the food into the BTAs mouth - allow it to extend its mouth outward and consume the food.

Feeding every few days will be sufficient to bring your BTA back.

FWIW,
Kevin
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9373056#post9373056 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
just defending myself here. andreewl can decide for himself what to do. My tank has been running for 6 months. it has been 2 months since my two carpet anems died. (I had just added my RBTA) Otherwise a single clownfish has died in the tank you are refering to.
One single fish.

Your tank has only been up for 6 months (the recommended STARTER point for anemones, by the way) and you've already lost two...AND a fish...

Anemones live nearly forever in the wild (literally), and clowns can live upwards of 20 years...how is that a good track record for six months?
 
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