Pondering the rare and exotic...?

check out this ULTRA superman shroom.

http://www.fragglereef.com/zen/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=1407

http://www.fragglereef.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_24&products_id=1407

maybe im seeing things but it looks the EXACT same as the $20.oo rock i picked up at the LFS containing 50 of these...

DSC07080.jpg


who woulda known i paid $20.oo for $500.OO worth of ULTRA supermans! :D
 
Glad to hear this talked about calmly. It's easy to get caught in the "name game". Orchids are an earlier example. We should enjoy what we like not what seems to be popular.
 
I have a long post of it on my blog, but here it is :

"So what is in a name? A definition? A description? A trademark? A benchmark? A way to differentiate between two opposites? Or alikes?

You all know that I do a lot of web surfing, sometimes too much.. friends add. But it allows me to get an understanding what is happening in many regions of the North American reefing industry. I can get a good feel on the pulse of the hobby in an area. So why is this entry labeled ‘Name Game Gone Berserk” and how does it relate to all of this?

Well, let me tell you. I am witnessing a vast majority of reefers AND e-tailers over-marketing every possible coral known to man to make a dollar. I am seeing SPS, LPS and soft corals getting the same treatment that a marketing firm would supply to big dogs such as Pepsi or McDonalds. I am seeing greed, and I am seeing detriment to our hobby. And I can’t stand it any longer!

Initially it was great. We would have very unique slower growing corals that were insanely colorful which couldn’t be found by many reefers. Usually, we tagged them with the farmer’s name and that would have been it. A lot of people would use it to track lineage for originality as most likely they would command a hefty tag. Steve Tyree, Greg Carroll, ORA are some that originally had their names on certain corals, corals that were worthy of unique names. Now, for example, we have local e-tailers (online vendors) who cannot stop naming every coral in their possession with their acronyms. Is it necessary to label an aquacultured pink birdsnest a TNR Highlighter Pink Odyssey S. hysterix? Or a bluish grey chalice a TNR Enter The Matrix Echinophyllia? Trying to make a 20$ frag turn into a 120$ frag? Sad, really.

Not too long ago, I wrote on the whole name game and why it was ok to do so. I think now I feel ashamed to even had thought so. Greed stewed this all up. People trying to profit from everyday corals that are seen in the hobby. Why not name something that is rarely seen? Something that takes three times as long to grow? Something that it is an immense challenge to keep?

But the problem lies with the vendors. They think all of their coral are unique and rare. Unsuspecting buyers would acquire this coral, and then see it at another location dubbed something completely different. Is that healthy for our hobby? Does anyone have any respect towards the consumers? What about towards the hobby? Because partaking in this name game is completely and utterly disrespectful towards any member of our global community who takes a lot of pride and strives toward caring and culturing for hard to find and keep corals.

So lets keep the names on corals that need it, and discard your shameful acronyms. Unless of course you have the rarest collection known to man!"

:D
 
I totally agree with what’s above. I did notice that a lot of people make their living picking out the "rare or exotic" corals.

As a small time business owner and professional pilot I've traveled to some on the wholesale distributers and noticed that some of the more savvy buyers make it a point to get there first for every shipment. If you're late you get the brown zoas not the chocolate ones :confused:

A lot of people do quite well buying whats hot. Any thing is only worth what someone else will pay for it. I'm just glat I waited before buying my Blue Tortuosa.

Just like Tulips every craze ends. You just don’t want to be the one holding the hot potato. Or in our case the 100 per head acan thats now $10 a head.

Bill
 
Why not name something that is rarely seen? Something that takes three times as long to grow? Something that it is an immense challenge to keep?

Because you can't make any money with rare and slow and hard to grow corals ;) That's why they come up with the hyped names for readily available and easy to chop corals ;)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14546485#post14546485 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Because you can't make any money with rare and slow and hard to grow corals ;) That's why they come up with the hyped names for readily available and easy to chop corals ;)

Cavaet emptor

Hate to say it but I was caught myself...Now I know better.

Bill
 
I have always felt the same way about exotic corals. I've had LFS employees excitedly tell me they are planning on getting some Tyree frags in or blue tubs or whatever specially named exotic coral is currently popular and I have to tell them that I just don't care. If they have and interesting or beautiful coral in that's great, but there's nothing in a name to me.
 
I think that the only shame in naming corals is what it does in the LFS. Believe it or not, you can find all of those named corals in a regular shipment of coral at any LFS (unless the supplier really doesn't like the store). When I worked at a store I would be amazed at some of the stuff that came in. I wouldn't even bother to name it but if I had maybe we could have marked it up more. I paid the same for a tri color millie that I would for a green digitata and I charged the same. Our supplier liked us and would hand pick great stuff when he had it. The suppliers in Indo didn't care much about what was hot here, they just sent what they had.

So the downside is that many of the brick and mortar stores are taking the lead of the internet places and naming the corals the same thing as what they do. They then match the prices and make them more expensive.

If you look at it from an internet vendors perspective, it would be really hard to sell average, common looking coral. It works all right in LFS because you get a lot of average and beginning hobbyists that are willing to buy common stuff and are looking for easy corals. You don't see that as much with the online customers, they want what they can't find easily in stores. It should also be noted that the online vendors have to take all the common corals that the suppliers give them along with the fancy stuff. They don't usually get special treatment.

So the bottom line is if you want a specific coral and don't feel like shopping around the LFS, or finding out when their shipments come in and cherry picking them, or you don't have a good LFS, then order exactly what you want online but you're going to pay a premium for that priviledge.
 
I think it is ridiculous, you paying for the NAME not the coral itself, I have to admit some are extremely beautiful but still overpriced.

It is the same way in my other hobby(reptiles) I keep mostly reticulated pythons and have a few grand into my collection, yet I still have a modest collection and nothing I have is extremely rare.

It is WAY more acceptable to ask high prices($15-25k is not unusual) in the reptile world tho because some of the color variations there may only 5 or 10 of in the entire world,(consider it an investment) you buy a pair for say $15k wait 2 years breed your pair and have say on average 18-25 offspring which can then be sold for slightly less than what you paid for yous(you will recoup your original costs and then some in the first breeding season)
take these for example;

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/available/showproduct.php?product=535&sort=1&cat=25&page=1

now in 5 years these will be worth like $1000 but as of right now there are only five of this perticular color mutation and at one point(sevreal years ago) there was only ONE!!!
 
This not unique to reefs. This happens in every hobby. For the actual coral farms they deserve to be able to charge high prices and name it whatever they want. If you can get a nice colored wild piece, grow it and frag it. Grow out those pieces and get them to maintain the color and then finally get the frags for resale.
 
I don't mind the prices for captive grown frags. I do mind stores taking a wild colony and chopping it up to sell as frags. It is correct that your local lfs gets a ton of nice looking colonies in every shipment but most of those do not keep that coloration once in the tank. I am willing to a pay a little more for a frag that has been grown in someones tank. I will pay an even higher price for a frag of a piece that has been in someone's tank for a long time and has kept its color. The LE pieces floating around the hobby are typically these pieces. Now I will say that I don't care if some guy sees this piece and deems it LE. I do like that this name allows us to track this particular colony as it travels around.

I recently caused quite a stir in my local reef club as I pointed out that a member was buying colonies online , fragging them, and then selling the frags for the same price as he bought the entire colony. To me this was a bit misleading as a 'frag' to me insinuates that the mother colony has been captive for quite a while and I am buying a piece of coral that is used to living in a tank.
 
I'm in total agreement with you Reefscape. I don't think the names are ruining the hobby, but it is getting ridiculous.

On a side/somewhat related note, you should check out the Upstate Reef Society club forum. We have a couple swaps coming up in the next couple months. Also, you'd be driving through the Finger Lakes region, with about a bazillion wineries. It'd be great for the Wife too!
 
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