Possible New Cure for Ick?
- Thread starter cratylus
- Start date
ganjero
saiperchémibatteilcorazon
Did you see the current thread discussing this topic?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2342319&page=12
reeferstace
I'm a little people
I hear sweetarts and tic tacs do well too.
msmith619
New member
I posted this reply under Reef Fish Diseases but, thought I wouls copy and paste it here. This has (so far) worked for me and is by no means a Scientific study nor am I recommending this as an alternative for QT or Copper. I did not have the luxury of a QT and had an ich outbreak in my DT and this has helped me and so, I offer it as an alternate therapy for those who cannot remove their affected fish or do not have a QT.
After three weeks of a Blue Hippo being completely covered in ich in my DT and not having a QT, I tried a different route.
I treated 5 days with Fishkeeper additive for Marine and Reef (made by Tropical Science), Seachem Metronidazole and Seachem Focus (Nitrofurantoin) along with Garlic Guard in their food at every feeding. I feed 3-5 times a day and added to both frozen and flake food. No one turned their nosed up at the medicated food.
The ich spots dissapperared 2 days into treatment. I used the Fish Keeper additive for 5 days and the Metronidazole and Focus for a total of 10 days.
This is a full reef tank with SPS, LPS, Gorgonians, and a LTA. There have been NO ILL EFFECTS to any of the reef inhabitants including my snails, hermit crabs and many ornamental shrimp.
It has now been 40+ days since completion of that therapy. There is no sign of ich. The tang is fatter and even more active than before. All the fish are still healthy and I did not have to treat the DT. I stopped the Metronidazole and Focus after 10 days. There has been no recurrence of spots after 3 solid weeks of heavy ich infestation of my Blue Tang.
I 'tested' the tank by adding a One-spot Foxface 2 weeks ago. No recurrence of the ich and no signs of ich on the new fish. I cannot say that the ich has been irradicated. There is no way to know but, a test by adding a new fish did not trigger a stress recurrence in the blue tang or an outbreak in the new Foxface who was very obviously stressed by demonstrating 'blochty' coloration, not feeding and hiding for 3 days before coming out to eat.
I know this is not the recommended course of action but, it was just about my only recourse and, in this case, it worked well. The ich was constant and the poor tang was covered from head to tail every day with hundreds of white spots, never a day without spots for 3 weeks. Two days into this treatment he lost all of the spots. Ich is a protozoan and we use Metronidazole on humans to treat protozoan infections. It just made sense to try it in the food and it seems to be working.
I would not hesitate to use this method again of recommend to others to try even in a full reef tank.
goldmaniac
New member
Everyone keeps going around and around on Ich treatments. In my 14 years with reef tanks, I've had a few ich outbreaks, mostly in my first 2-3 years. No outbreaks in the past 5 years, including a house move 3 years ago. And I KNOW that there is Ich present in the tank. So this is my line of thinking:
No, there is no proof that garlic (or ginger) cures ich
When i DO see a fish with what looks like ich, I take a garlic press and mince 2-3 cloves of raw garlic straight into the (120 gallon) tank. Fish, especially tangs, eat some of it. Then I mince an additional single, fat clove of garlic into the tank daily.
I do nothing else. no Copper, no QT, nothing else.
I consider garlic as nothing more than a glorified type of bug spray. Horses are fed garlic to keep biting flies away, because it stinks and probably tastes bad. I have the OPINION that minced raw garlic (that the fish will eat) somehow discourages the Ich parasite from taking over the fish's system.
This works for me.
How does it work for me? Well, the fish usually (80-90% of the time) recover in a few days. I usually know when it isn't going to work because the biggest factor I've noticed with Ich recovery is the presence of a stressor, usually a resident dominant fish picking on a new arrival. For example, I keep multiple tangs, and they will sometimes REALLY not like tang newcomers. The newcomer will sometimes get Ich due to this relentless stressor. If the situation doesn't change, then the new fish is a goner if I don't remove it. It's all about observation.
I don't copper. it's a reef tank, so I'd have to remove and QT the new fish to start a copper regimen.
If i can't catch the fish quickly, then it's healthy enough to run & hide, and strong enough to fight the ich outbreak. If I chase it down, disrupting the tank, I feel that this is an even BIGGER stressor, further hurting the fish.
I don't QT for Ich in general. I've found that it's not beneficial. I even took a 10-month period to try to go completely ich-free. It's futile.
Yes, the Ich parasite is in my 120 gallon tank's water. Keep healthy fish and they won't succumb to Ich.
Even if raw garlic doesn't help, by doing NOTHING ELSE, the fish usually recover.
I am a proponent of NOT adding Cu and NOT QT'ing a sick fish from the display tank. I have found that more fish die when I QT a fish and give it a copper treatment than when I LEAVE THE TANK SYSTEM ALONE.
that's my experience. LEAVE IT ALONE, add Garlic if you want.
No, there is no proof that garlic (or ginger) cures ich
When i DO see a fish with what looks like ich, I take a garlic press and mince 2-3 cloves of raw garlic straight into the (120 gallon) tank. Fish, especially tangs, eat some of it. Then I mince an additional single, fat clove of garlic into the tank daily.
I do nothing else. no Copper, no QT, nothing else.
I consider garlic as nothing more than a glorified type of bug spray. Horses are fed garlic to keep biting flies away, because it stinks and probably tastes bad. I have the OPINION that minced raw garlic (that the fish will eat) somehow discourages the Ich parasite from taking over the fish's system.
This works for me.
How does it work for me? Well, the fish usually (80-90% of the time) recover in a few days. I usually know when it isn't going to work because the biggest factor I've noticed with Ich recovery is the presence of a stressor, usually a resident dominant fish picking on a new arrival. For example, I keep multiple tangs, and they will sometimes REALLY not like tang newcomers. The newcomer will sometimes get Ich due to this relentless stressor. If the situation doesn't change, then the new fish is a goner if I don't remove it. It's all about observation.
I don't copper. it's a reef tank, so I'd have to remove and QT the new fish to start a copper regimen.
If i can't catch the fish quickly, then it's healthy enough to run & hide, and strong enough to fight the ich outbreak. If I chase it down, disrupting the tank, I feel that this is an even BIGGER stressor, further hurting the fish.
I don't QT for Ich in general. I've found that it's not beneficial. I even took a 10-month period to try to go completely ich-free. It's futile.
Yes, the Ich parasite is in my 120 gallon tank's water. Keep healthy fish and they won't succumb to Ich.
Even if raw garlic doesn't help, by doing NOTHING ELSE, the fish usually recover.
I am a proponent of NOT adding Cu and NOT QT'ing a sick fish from the display tank. I have found that more fish die when I QT a fish and give it a copper treatment than when I LEAVE THE TANK SYSTEM ALONE.
that's my experience. LEAVE IT ALONE, add Garlic if you want.
I wonder if cratylus left this forum for good. No updates since 2004
His latest post here was last summer;
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20572256#post20572256
Chris Moses
New member
My first post here at Reef Central...
Read this entire thread, trying my best to skip over the nonsense posts... overall a very interesting read.
I've been doing salt for about 25 years and I am of the thinking that Ick is just a natural part of reef tanking... it will rear it's ugly head when the fish are stressed do to water conditions or diet. Basically unless the water is mildly poisoned with copper it going to be there in a natural reef tank. Basically all the fish have it, it's just a mater if they can stay healthy enough to control it on there own.
I too just had an Ick outbreak on my established 125gal which has been in place for over 14 years. I am chalking it up to 2 factors: water temperature which is on the cold side since it is so damn cold here that my furnace can't keep up and I let the PG get too high (1.26)... just didn't keep as close an eye on it as I would have liked... pretty sure I accidentally added a extra scoop of salt in my last water change which was just the other day.
-----
I am going to go to the grocery store in the morning and try both the fresh garlic and Jamaican ginger root 'cure' tomorrow. If this helps them fight it off quicker I am all for it.
Question... what are guys thinking in regards to quantity? I was thinking of mincing in about 25% of the garlic and ginger of what would be the normal volume of food. Should I do less or more?
Regards,
Chris
Read this entire thread, trying my best to skip over the nonsense posts... overall a very interesting read.
I've been doing salt for about 25 years and I am of the thinking that Ick is just a natural part of reef tanking... it will rear it's ugly head when the fish are stressed do to water conditions or diet. Basically unless the water is mildly poisoned with copper it going to be there in a natural reef tank. Basically all the fish have it, it's just a mater if they can stay healthy enough to control it on there own.
I too just had an Ick outbreak on my established 125gal which has been in place for over 14 years. I am chalking it up to 2 factors: water temperature which is on the cold side since it is so damn cold here that my furnace can't keep up and I let the PG get too high (1.26)... just didn't keep as close an eye on it as I would have liked... pretty sure I accidentally added a extra scoop of salt in my last water change which was just the other day.
-----
I am going to go to the grocery store in the morning and try both the fresh garlic and Jamaican ginger root 'cure' tomorrow. If this helps them fight it off quicker I am all for it.
Question... what are guys thinking in regards to quantity? I was thinking of mincing in about 25% of the garlic and ginger of what would be the normal volume of food. Should I do less or more?
Regards,
Chris
They never did, and still haven't, convinced everyone.
No. Only red hots.
Thales
Active member
This topic prompted a series of articles. Here is the first one that talks about ich
http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-magazine/77954-skeptical-reefkeeping-richard-ross.html
http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-magazine/77954-skeptical-reefkeeping-richard-ross.html
CoralBeauty13
New member
I did read that on a blog awhile back. Some guy swears by it and has used it everytime he introduced a new fish and got a break out. Good job at that, you may be on to something great !
Thales
Active member
Nice article Rich :thumbsup:
So am I correct that a crowing rooster will cure ich?
Thanks Bill. No if only we could get people to read it (see post preceding this one - unless it is sarcastic!).
Now I should prolly run away as not to develop an ulcer.
Thanks Bill. No if only we could get people to read it (see post preceding this one - unless it is sarcastic!).
Now I should prolly run away as not to develop an ulcer.
I hear if you eat live blackworms, it will cure what ails you and prevent you from getting sick. Probably works for ulcers too
lostintheocean
New member
its very sad you are willing to just throw them away and replace them, how about take care of them instead
Chris Moses
New member
Day 5 update on my fresh ginger root & garlic treatment... the fish are virtually Ick free.. I can see one or two spec tiny specs on a couple of the fish currently.
I am thinking there is a positive reaction to this 'medication'.
At this point I will continue the servings of ginger & garlic for at least another 25 days. If the Ick does not totally vanish or comes back at all on it's expected cycle prior to the end of the treatment I will drop this 'witch doctor' treatment and setup some hospital tanks and go the conventional route.
I will report back progress or lack there of.
Regards,
Chris
I am thinking there is a positive reaction to this 'medication'.
At this point I will continue the servings of ginger & garlic for at least another 25 days. If the Ick does not totally vanish or comes back at all on it's expected cycle prior to the end of the treatment I will drop this 'witch doctor' treatment and setup some hospital tanks and go the conventional route.
I will report back progress or lack there of.
Regards,
Chris
Your pretty much on schedule for the ich trophants to mature and drop off the fish to reproduce as a natural and normal part of their life cycle. The reproduction phase occurs in the substrate, with reinfection occurring in about a week...give or take few days depending on temperature and strain.
