Possible Pathogen Based Acro Necrosis

i've dosed vodka intermittently

been a long time ago, but i had a kalk overdosed that i countered with vinegar... had a heckuva bloom.... so i know exactly what you are talking about.

i am gonna look into the antiobiotic thing and go from there

to get my tank at 77*F max is gonna be tough.... my chiller will have to run 24/7 or we will have to skip thru summer/fall and go straight into winter
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9988415#post9988415 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by speedstar
Also was flow ever stopped to your CA RX long enough that a bad or ugly bacteria could be in it, or could the media have something bad in it. throwing out ideas sorry if there wack
Click to expand...

nope... no stoppage of flow in c-reactor except for maybe 30 mins here and there

media... has the same media in it that i put in when i set it up last august

this problem has been happening since feb/mar... but really progressing lately. my first memory of necrosis that coulda begun this stretch of malady was an acro frag that came in Jan this year. It started receding... i kept fragging and remounting and it kept receding... i couldnt get any of it to survive.

Could very well be that the acro mentioned brought in some crazy disease that is causing all of this.
 
I really think it sounds like whats affecting a ton of corals in the Caribbean right now. White line, its a type of bacterial infection thats starts at the base then works its way up, then start blotching. It is said to have been caused by stress or sometimes even called (SRN) stress related necrosis.

I would steer clear of trying to add any vodka/sugar/ethanol related things. This is only going to cause bacteria to have something to feed on. If this is a bacteria that is eating at his coral thats going to be very counterproductive.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9988435#post9988435 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kip
i've dosed vodka intermittently

been a long time ago, but i had a kalk overdosed that i countered with vinegar... had a heckuva bloom.... so i know exactly what you are talking about.

i am gonna look into the antiobiotic thing and go from there
Click to expand...

The only acro colony I have ever had die in a tank full of SPS was a misc. pink that bit it recently. I think it had something to do with O/bacterial levels. When I first started dosing vinegar in kalkwasser the main colony started to recede at the base and even "healthy" frags taken from the mother all RTNd over a few days. Months later, I started dosing the bacteria solution of Prodibio and a 2" frag of the same colony on the other side of the tank RTNd. 30 or so other acros remained unfazed through both episodes?
 
KiP

Can you please post some pics. Perhaps you could forward them to a marine biologist as see what they say.

Edwin
 
I think I just went through the very same thing you are describing. That'll teach me to not QT corals anymore!! It came on about 2 weeks after adding some frags. One by one, my acros started to show small signs of stress. It didn't come on all at once, but took about 4 months total. None of my monti caps were phased. I broke a nice tri color off at it's base (on accident); the base has already grown over with nice polyps, and the rest is doing fine. Yet, other acros seemed to STN for no apparent reason. Because some corals were still doing so well, I had no reason to suspect water quality. I did a few large and frequent water changes, but this had no affect at all (other than going through a ton of salt.) I think I lost 7 colonies in all.


This was the first one to show signs. It took about 3 weeks just to get to this point. It eventually died.

IMG_1659.jpg




This is the second one. Notice the algae growing on the tip. This one should recover just fine.

IMG_1665.jpg




Here was a nice pink frag that was doing quite well for a few months. It's a goner.


IMG_1664.jpg





Here is a really nice purple frag at the early stages. This frag was also lost.


IMG_1662.jpg




Here is another coral that was really beginning to color up nicely, then WHAM!!! It's about 50/50 on making a recovery. Still shows very nice polyp extension.


IMG_1661.jpg
 
Kip, I'm going through the same thing right now too. I've been down many of the same roads you've traveled. Double and triple checked all parameters etc. Mine seems to have slowed recently, to some extent at least. The bright side being that all frags taken from healthy tissue remain healthy and are doing fine in the frag tank which happens to be on the same sump. In my mind that rules out a water borne pathogen, but I'm nowhere near as smart as you folks. Just adding my $.02.

Any of these look familiar?
clathrata.jpg


May 1st
prostrata5_1.jpg


May 5th
prostrata5_5.jpg


secale.jpg


pulchra2.jpg


pulchra.jpg


turaki.jpg


CAReefer
 
Whenever I've had unexplainable problems, I do a lot of water changes. 10% a day for 10 days straight & things have always recovered. The first day I'll do a bit more, maybe 20% if I have the water on hand.

It's an easy regiment to follow, don't slack off a day.

Usually after 7 days I'll see improvements. You'll kill yourself trying to figure out whats wrong..........there's just too many variables that we can't measure.

One difference though is I do this right away, not after fighting something for week/months.
 
Last edited:
Hey Kip i don't doubt that u have ruled out all common ailments in this hobby by now. So here's my two cents.
Having a medical background makes me think that the problem is def. a pathogen and as of now u unfortunately don't have the right abx.

The most common "bacterial infection" water borne are as u know vibrio and this are not covered with erythromycin. Perhaps a fungal infection but not likely since this usually affect gorgs most commonly.

So lacking a specific pathogen I would teat the colonies with a broad spectrum antibiotic.

Makes me wonder why the UV has not taken care of the "disease"
Anyways I'm in a hurry but I will look into it.
empiric treatment for Vibrio infections in humans include multiple antibiotics:
1-doxycycline
2-3rd generation cepalosphorin(ceftazidime example)
3-gentamicin
Lacking a specific pathogen sensitivity i would treat the most common pathogen with a broad spectrum antibiotic.
I will follow.
 
wow... thanks for all of the responses

it is both comforting and unfortunate to know i am not in this boat alone

that broad spectrium multiple antibiotics idea... if thats the path to take... how does one go about getting a hold of them? would it be a system treatment, bath, or QT all corals and only treat them (acros only or across the board)

i have little doubt that this is eventually gonna wipe all of my acros ... so i am not afraid of trying the extreme
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9990008#post9990008 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kip
wow... thanks for all of the responses

it is both comforting and unfortunate to know i am not in this boat alone

that broad spectrium multiple antibiotics idea... if thats the path to take... how does one go about getting a hold of them? would it be a system treatment, bath, or QT all corals and only treat them (acros only or across the board)

i have little doubt that this is eventually gonna wipe all of my acros ... so i am not afraid of trying the extreme
Click to expand...

Hey kip I've never tried it but if I was in your shoes-why not man.
All of your acros are dying despite trying everything . I've never heard of antibiotics killing acros-perhaps stressing them.
As far as whole tank I truly dont know-but it makes sense to me that the pathogens in the water column are getting zapped versus the ones that are invading the host are attached.
How to get them- if u were local I could prescribe u some. You may want to try your primary care physician-even better come to thing of it speak to your VET he would understand and help you out.
 
You migth want to try the doxycycline in a QT tank. I've used it in the past for RTN with ok results.

I can't remember the dosage, I'll try to find it. But you need to keep the tank in the dark for 24 hours during the treatment as the doxycycline breaks down with light.
 
as of today... acros that i've received within the last 6-8wks in a holding tank here at work are showing signs

interesting part... these frags have never seen my home tank nor any corals from my home tank are in this holding tank. i purposely kept these frags from going home so they wouldnt be subjected to problems at home

these acros are exclusively from 2 online vendors... it may be obvious but there now seems to be evidence that this disease is coming in (possibly from the wild) or at least from vendor holding tanks (which i would assume their raised frags and wildies occupy the same water)

this is risky to post because i dont wanna create a panic or point fingers.... and there is no 100% proof.... at this point just a lot of coincidence. even if i knew that this problem came directly from John Doe's Frag Shop... i wouldnt be angry with John Doe because these things can just happen... especially with how delayed some of these problems manifest themselves. Now if John Doe was having these problems... i would really like to see John Doe come forward.

but... i digress
 
is doxycycline something that a vet would readily write for a guy with dying corals?

i dont have any close/personal relationships with any physicians/vets :(
 
I'm not sure how you would get it, I had a friend give me mine.

That's strange how you are seeing the seem problems in a separate tank. That would leave me to believe that something you have is contaminated and is causing the same thing to happen in both tank. What common things to they share (eg same, salt, water, additives etc)?
 
the tanks are 3 miles from each other

water is made from seperate sources using seperate ro/di units

mainly IO salt from different buckets at each place... but i did get some red sea in to test... but i set up another tank with red sea pro salt exclusively, put healthy tips of affected frags in there, and have yet to see a problem (operative word-yet)

work tank runs wages on a drip and some baking soda

home tank runs k-reactor and c-reactors with no other additives

only thing they would share would be frags from home, but i havent brought any frags from home since last fall and they are all doing well in the 75g display in the lobby... its the 20g holding tank in my office (shared water) that is starting with this problem

sorry this is so complicated because i run various systems.

-display and frag tank at home share water (frag tank most heavily affected now transcending to display)
-there is a 75g that doenst share water (now holding healthy acro tips)
-and there is a 75g display and 20g holding tank at work that share water).. absolutely no problems here until today
 
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