Potter's Angel, Why 'Expert Only'?

[LargeAngels]

If Morgan says potters are juiced then he is wrong or you missunderstood him. I know how long Morgan has been in the business and I have talked to him many times and bought fish from him and have a lot of respect for him. But Potters being juiced is just plain wrong!!

IME potters a couple of the keys to healthy potters is cooler temps, having lots to graze on, treat for flukes (Copps mentioned there is a particular fluke associated with some potters if I remember correctly) and the less handling (sooner from the diver) the better.

 

[ccampbell57]

Inland Aquatics was partially built around a potters angel, because they are collected incorrectly, morgan lidster will tell you out of all the potters angels that are collected 99% are "juiced" meaning chemicals used to collect them and later on die from it, he has tried tons of times and will no longer order them because noone can truly catch them and collect them properly, and like said on a earlier post, just because someone "has a new potter's angel and its eating like a pig" we'll say, doesnt mean in 2 weeks it will be dead because either it was juiced, mishandled in shipping, post tramatic shipping stress and so forth.

Where did you get this information from??? Very VERY untrue and frankly quite disturbing that you believe fish in Hawaii are caught using anything but nets and hands. "juiced" potters???? Seriously? I have dove for potters and seen first hand how they are caught. Do you realize the ramifications of using cyanide from a divers perspective?

I have owned many potters singly and in pairs. They are difficult in that they don't acclimate to captivity well. They are also a cooler water fish (low to mid 70's). Once acclimated they do VERY well and thrive.

Get your facts straight before spouting off about how things are collected.

 

[nivekid]

Wow, looks like we have a very 'healthy' debate. Collection debate aside, I would like to here from more long term successes from Potter's keepers.

 

[albano]

I would like to hear from more long term successes from Potter's keepers.

Do you consider yourself 'experienced' enough for an 'expert only' fish...otherwise you're probably wasting your time, $, and the life of a fish!

If you're waiting for someone to tell you how easy it is to keep a Potters, IMO it won't happen...but, if it does, I would suggest disregarding that advice.

 

[namxas]

They are also a cooler water fish (low to mid 70's).

Hi Chris,

You made a great point...this isn't "potter's-specific", but like you, I'm a firm believer that most folks run their systems too warm for many "hard-to-keep" species. One of the issues may be that these cooler-water fish may be sensitive to lower dissolved O2 content, which also affects the activity of the fish in question, and thus, appetite. There's also a greater chance of the fish contracting a disease at warmer temps, as the concentration of many pathogens goes nuts at about 75*F or higher.

 

[reefsafe]

where did you get this information from??? Very very untrue and frankly quite disturbing that you believe fish in hawaii are caught using anything but nets and hands. "juiced" potters???? Seriously? I have dove for potters and seen first hand how they are caught. Do you realize the ramifications of using cyanide from a divers perspective?

I have owned many potters singly and in pairs. They are difficult in that they don't acclimate to captivity well. They are also a cooler water fish (low to mid 70's). Once acclimated they do very well and thrive.

Get your facts straight before spouting off about how things are collected.

like

 

[jnc914]

I have received Hawaiian endemic fish from various divers for years, and I have never known of any of them being juiced with cyanide. In fact I have the most luck with fish direct from HI because they do not go through the chain of collection/wholesalers, etc. I have had several pairs of Potter's that have done well after a lengthy QT period. The key is treating for parasites and slowly introducing new food during acclimation to captive life. If you get them from a good source, they are challenging but certainly not impossible. There are several Hawaiian divers here on RC, I hope they will chime in as this type of serious misinformation about cyanide usage can hurt their trade.

 

[nivekid]

Do you consider yourself 'experienced' enough for an 'expert only' fish...otherwise you're probably wasting your time, $, and the life of a fish!

If you're waiting for someone to tell you how easy it is to keep a Potters, IMO it won't happen...but, if it does, I would suggest disregarding that advice.

Honestly I don't consider myself experienced quite yet. I wasn't really even considering getting a potter's either. I was just curious as to why they are considered difficult. I'm not looking for some newbie to say that they've had success keeping one in a goldfish bowl on their kitchen table and that therefor gives me the permission to try them. I just thought maybe we could all learn together how to be successful and maybe, just maybe, a few of these beautiful fish could be saved from an untimely death. (FYI just because someone's post count is a little lower doesn't mean they are a newbie that will go against intelligent advice.)

 

[flameangel88]

Honestly I don't consider myself experienced quite yet. I wasn't really even considering getting a potter's either. I was just curious as to why they are considered difficult. I'm not looking for some newbie to say that they've had success keeping one in a goldfish bowl on their kitchen table and that therefor gives me the permission to try them. I just thought maybe we could all learn together how to be successful and maybe, just maybe, a few of these beautiful fish could be saved from an untimely death. (FYI just because someone's post count is a little lower doesn't mean they are a newbie that will go against intelligent advice.)

Number of posts has nothing to do with intelligent advice here experience does. I used to post a lot here till recent where I've to prioritze my time and only get to jump in here once in a while. If anyone follow the forum long enough here will know who give sound advice and which one doesn't have a clue. At the end nothing replaces experiences, and we are here to help each other out.

 

[philter4]

One thing I keep reading is the use of cyanide as "juicing" the fish, while cyanide is certainly used in some countries, quinaldine is not only legal to use in some states for collecting tropicals it is not destructive like cyanide. Quinaldine is an anesthetic for cold blooded animals used by veterinary clinics for reptiles when they have to do certain procedures. It is not toxic to fish when dosed correctly, the problem is it can't be dosed in the ocean accurately and the fish that get hit with the first squirt of the bottle get a lot stronger concentration then the fish at the end of the dive. About the only good thing with it's use is it does not seem to harm corals, even when hit with full doses, probably because the coral closes it's polyps when quinaldine is used and the currents just carry it away and dilute it very quickly. Remember this is an anesthetic, cyanide is a poison, a very different situation for a coral or fish that is hit with a dose. In Florida they issue permits for it to collectors some of whom use it regularly, although not all collectors use it. When I was collecting we never used it and I know many collectors who don't. Most of the fish (but again not all) coming out of certain areas in the Caribbean are collected with it. While I don't agree with it's use it is perfectly legal in Florida with the correct permits but it is not legal in Hawaii under any circumstance except maybe for scientific collections and I am not sure that it is legal even for that.

 

[albano]

(FYI just because someone's post count is a little lower doesn't mean they are a newbie that will go against intelligent advice.)

+1. and conversely, there are newbs here with high post counts, that know NOTHING, but love to post!
Just want the best for you AND the fish! :beer:

 

[nivekid]

+1. and conversely, there are newbs here with high post counts, that know NOTHING, but love to post!
Just want the best for you AND the fish! :beer:

Well put. Just here to learn together.

 

[cwoods8]

I definantly heard and seen Potter's on steriods "juiced"

 

[MrTuskfish]

I definantly heard and seen Potter's on steriods "juiced"

Probably got them from Barry Bonds. I'm not sure, but aren't some of the "color enhancers'' in some foods considered steroids? "Juice' is the common term for steroids in sports, even way back when I played in College. With reef fish, I've always heard "Juiced' as referring to cyanide collection.