Potters Angel x Flame Angel hybrid?

alzika

In Memoriam
Has anyone seen a pic of what one of these would look like?

They are both from the same area and have been known to exist in the wild. I have a small potter's angel in QT and the LFS has a larger Flame angel.

They would both be in different QT tanks for 3 weeks before introducing them to the 75 gallon display.

Good or bad idea?
 
My last trip to Hawaii, at the Wiakiki Aquarium there was a potters/flame hybrid, the fish was a dull orange, and IMO not nearly as nice as either adult. I would love some of the lemon peel hybrids, but after seeing this fish it would no be one I would try to get. As far as keeping them together, that is very possible, I keep one tank that has potters, flame, cherub and fishers and they all get along, sometimes there is a little displaying and some chasing, but overall they are fine, just intorduce them to the main tank at or around the same time so they establish their territories and pecking order without deciding to kill each other.
 
I know the potters I have is a female. It has VERY VERY little dark coloration on her body.

I'm hoping with the Flame being larger, he will become a male, if he isn't already.
 
Excellent idea Alzika... I can post pics of this hybrid tonight... which has been documented from four known specimens...

Philter4, when were you in Waikiki last? Are you sure you are not referring to the Centropyge potteri/ C. fisheri hybrid?
 
check out
http://www.springerlink.com/content/ujq3l60626237l2u/fulltext.pdf

It all depends on the fish and tank if you put the two together, I am goint to try a pair of bandits and true hawaiian flames in the same tank. They are in different tanks at the moment. As one Hawaiian fish collector told me, it should be ok as long as they all have there own little home to sleep in at night.

:eek2:

Where did you get a pair a true Hawaiian Flames? It's my understanding they are not often seen or collected. Most still are collected from the Marshall Islands. Maybe Copps can share some insight on that.....
 
:eek2:

Where did you get a pair a true Hawaiian Flames? It's my understanding they are not often seen or collected. Most still are collected from the Marshall Islands. Maybe Copps can share some insight on that.....

I think Christmas Island is where most flames are comming from, through Hawaii. True Hawaiian flames are few and far between. When I saw those listed as Hawaiian flames on Aquatouch's site it seemed that $200 was too cheap for acclimated True Hawaiian angelfish with shipping included.
 
The true Hawaiian flame angel is indeed a very rare sight in this industry... but many people don't know it... including many people in the industry... and there's a reason... Most all of the flame angels in the past have gone through Hawaiian wholesalers, received from both Christmas Island and the Marshall Islands in HUGE numbers... wholesalers in LA or in other parts of the US would receive them from Hawaii and place them on their stocklists... many would put something like "flame angel: origin- Hawaii"... and as flames are found in Hawaii, many people for years erroneously thought these were true Hawaiian flames...

Anyone who has dived in Hawaii knows that of the five species found in the Main Hawaiian Islands there is only one that is common... Centropyge potteri. Flames naturally have a very low population density in Hawaii... I've confirmed this with old time divers that have dived Hawaii for decades, so this has nothing to do with collection. The population density on Oahu is especially low, where alot of collection is done. More can be seen on the Kona Coast of the Big Island. Fortunately, the population densities of this very unique Centropyge (red is rare in angels) are very high at other locales...

The Hawaiian "race" of flame angels is blood red... with little to no orange or yellow throughout... and while there is no ugly flame angel, the Hawaiian ones are quite stunning! I can post pics tonight... I've owned singles through the years and for the past six months or so I've been working on a trio that has now settled in to my large frag system and are ready to be put on display. Interestingly, in a recent scientific paper the Hawaiian race was studied... this color variety is only found elsewhere at Johnston Island about 750 miles southwest of Hawaii... interestingly, the other more common color variant is also found at Johnston, but not in Hawaii. The two "races" were studied at Johnston, and it was concluded that the two different color morphs have resulted from sexual selection, and the two do not interbreed for the most part at Johnston... AMAZING!:spin3:

Oh, and John Dawe is hard core! He does ALL Hawaii fish... and is one of just three people to have attended every MACNA... we were roomies a few years back in Pittsburgh!:beer:
 
The true Hawaiian flame angel is indeed a very rare sight in this industry... but many people don't know it... including many people in the industry... and there's a reason... Most all of the flame angels in the past have gone through Hawaiian wholesalers, received from both Christmas Island and the Marshall Islands in HUGE numbers... wholesalers in LA or in other parts of the US would receive them from Hawaii and place them on their stocklists... many would put something like "flame angel: origin- Hawaii"... and as flames are found in Hawaii, many people for years erroneously thought these were true Hawaiian flames...

Anyone who has dived in Hawaii knows that of the five species found in the Main Hawaiian Islands there is only one that is common... Centropyge potteri. Flames naturally have a very low population density in Hawaii... I've confirmed this with old time divers that have dived Hawaii for decades, so this has nothing to do with collection. The population density on Oahu is especially low, where alot of collection is done. More can be seen on the Kona Coast of the Big Island. Fortunately, the population densities of this very unique Centropyge (red is rare in angels) are very high at other locales...

The Hawaiian "race" of flame angels is blood red... with little to no orange or yellow throughout... and while there is no ugly flame angel, the Hawaiian ones are quite stunning! I can post pics tonight... I've owned singles through the years and for the past six months or so I've been working on a trio that has now settled in to my large frag system and are ready to be put on display. Interestingly, in a recent scientific paper the Hawaiian race was studied... this color variety is only found elsewhere at Johnston Island about 750 miles southwest of Hawaii... interestingly, the other more common color variant is also found at Johnston, but not in Hawaii. The two "races" were studied at Johnston, and it was concluded that the two different color morphs have resulted from sexual selection, and the two do not interbreed for the most part at Johnston... AMAZING!:spin3:

Oh, and John Dawe is hard core! He does ALL Hawaii fish... and is one of just three people to have attended every MACNA... we were roomies a few years back in Pittsburgh!:beer:

Can't wait to see the pics you are going to post of the hybrid cross. Also, even if the flame I'm considering purchasing isn't from Hawaii, is there a chance they could spawn? If not, I'll try to get a true Hawaiian flame.
 
There is absolutely a chance... and I do not believe there would be a difference in which flame you chose... I've had an interrupta spawn with a joculator, a coral beauty with a lemonpeel, and a resplendens with a fisheri to name a few...
 
John,

What's your thoughts on this flame? Supposed to be Hawaiian (see the potters.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqfeWfUK3j4&feature=player_embedded

I will not be able to view this until tonight (blocked)... and in all honesty many times it is tough to tell... I believe what goes on is that is that all flames have the ability to produce many of the morphs we see, but in certain areas certain morphs predominate as a result of sexual selection or perhaps other factors...

One other thing to keep in mind is that there are many released Christmas/Marshall flames on Oahu...
 
Looked like the "normal" Flame angel to me. But all are beautiful, the fish that inspired me to get into this hobby. BTW

Matthew
 
This potter's is absolutely beautiful. It only has a blue spot in the middle of it's body. The rest, is orange, except the tail area. It's almost a blue square in the center of her body.

I LOVE the way this fish looks. Nicest specimen I've ever seen.
 
John,

What's your thoughts on this flame? Supposed to be Hawaiian (see the potters.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqfeWfUK3j4&feature=player_embedded


Now that I could see this video here at home, that is indeed a true Hawaiian flame... from the video with the coral growth it appeared to be from Kona, and after a look at the tags in the video that's where it was taken. Collectors on the Big Island do not import flames like they do on Oahu. Keep in mind when looking at the colors is that video was taken in shallow water under the midday sun, which is yellower than an Iwasaki at about 5k! :)

Here are a couple shots of two Hawaiian flames of mine... this one a male...

flame_hawaii_male.jpg


... and this one a female...

flame_hawaii_female.jpg



Here are two shots of Centropyge potteri/ C. loricula hybrids (not mine)

potteri_loriculus_hybrid.jpg


flame_potters_hybrid.jpg


And here is a shot of the one and only Centropyge fisheri/ C. potteri hybrid ever known to science... this fish is still on display at the Waikiki Aquarium...

potteri_fisheri_hybrid3.jpg


When I transfer my Hawaiian flame harem into the display I'll get some pics...

Copps
 
The last fish pictured (from Reef Builders) is a photo of one of my specimens... and is indeed a hybrid. You could read the story about this fish here... The Centropyge shepardi that aren't. It is more than coincidence they look like shepardi I believe... :)

That C. loricula/ C. bispinosa hybrid is friggin' sweet!!! I've loved that fish... :)

Copps
 
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