powder blue hopefully surviving ich?

[davehos1]

hi everyone,
Haven't been on here in a while. My 3 yr. old tripletts keep me humping.just purchased a powder blue for my 125 reef with mostly softies and bubble tip with tiny maroon clown,spotted rabbitfish,7 chromis,2 pajamas,flametail blenny,and a yellow watchman/w shrimp.powder blue got ich 2 days after he arrived as i broke the quarantine rule i now have a mess. he is a lot better after three days of garlic and nori but has a ways to go. should i try and remove him for treatment which he will be very hard to catch or see how he does as he is eating like a pig and swimming well.
ph-8.2
kh-7.5
temp-80
nitrate/nitrites-0
phosphates-0
calcium-400ppm
amonia-0
Thanks for any advice,Dave:headwally:

 

[rivahodges]

I would leave him be at this point. My powder brown did the same thing but he cleared up in 2 days. Trying to catch him now will just add more stress and could make it worse.

 

[davehos1]

thanks,
that's kinda what i was thinking just didn't know if the powder blues were tough enough to pull through or if he was on his way out. i would have to have a huge quarantine tank to do all of my fish and didn't know if all the crabs and snails in the display would harbor the ich for the 6 week period anyway.

 

[Tin_Whistler]

I hate to break it to you, but once that ich has been in the tank, it's there until you keep it fishless for 9 weeks.

To get rid of the ich permanently you'll have to treat all your fish for it. Garlic and Nori won't do anything to fix the problem.

 

[macman7010]

I would disagree that garlic and Nori won't do anything. Garlic is a known parasite preventative for fish and other animals. Nori is a healthy stable of a surgeonfish's diet and Garlic infused Nori can be purchased. These two items can help maintain a healthy fish with a strong immune system though they won't cure ich. Sometimes with good nutrition and garlic infused foods, I recommend New Life Spectrum's Thera A - you can help your fish overcome the parasite naturally, though the parasite may remain in the tank.

 

[davehos1]

thanks for the replies everyone. the tang has no spots at all at this point and seems to be doing well.in the future i really have to get a qt. This was the last fish i wanted to add and thought i'd get lucky.........wrong! I have been reding alot and wonder if maybe I missdiagnosed him as the whole thing started with these actually pretty big knots on his side and then he got the spots.the spots are gone but he still has some knots like I've really never seen on a fish. anyone know what this might be? Also none of the others show any signs at this time.If all fish become immune to the ich will it die off,wishful thinking i know.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I hate to break it to you, but once that ich has been in the tank, it's there until you keep it fishless for 9 weeks.

To get rid of the ich permanently you'll have to treat all your fish for it. Garlic and Nori won't do anything to fix the problem.

+1
Garlic & nori are just bits of basic fishkeeping; not a cure for anything. "Managing" rather than eliminating ich is just a disaster waiting to happen. Its very common for ich to disappear for a while, then return X100 (or 1000). Sure, you might be able to keep it under control for a while, but not indefinitely. All it takes is just a stressor, or timing, and all your fish are covered with ich. Follow this section of the forum for a while; "managed ich" tanks that have become overnight disasters are very common. The inevitable result of not using a QT on all new fish.

 

[NautilusQ]

Cleaner wrasse is cheap and could help manage ich and some parasites visible.

 

[MrTuskfish]

thanks for the replies everyone. the tang has no spots at all at this point and seems to be doing well.in the future i really have to get a qt. This was the last fish i wanted to add and thought i'd get lucky.........wrong! I have been reding alot and wonder if maybe I missdiagnosed him as the whole thing started with these actually pretty big knots on his side and then he got the spots.the spots are gone but he still has some knots like I've really never seen on a fish. anyone know what this might be? Also none of the others show any signs at this time.If all fish become immune to the ich will it die off,wishful thinking i know.

I don't know if it was ich, PBTs are very prone to it. If its ich, the "lull" you see now is common; read the ich stickies above. Some fish can develop some temporary immunity to ich; the key word being temporary. If ich appears, it will be obvious and probably be on other fish too. At that point; your only option is treat all of the fish in a QT while the DT remains fishless for 9 +weeks. If it gets to this point, you'll be kicking yourself in the doupa (Polish); so I won't.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I would disagree that garlic and Nori won't do anything. Garlic is a known parasite preventative for fish and other animals. Nori is a healthy stable of a surgeonfish's diet and Garlic infused Nori can be purchased. These two items can help maintain a healthy fish with a strong immune system though they won't cure ich. Sometimes with good nutrition and garlic infused foods, I recommend New Life Spectrum's Thera A - you can help your fish overcome the parasite naturally, though the parasite may remain in the tank.

........and as long as the parasite is in the tank, you have a huge problem waiting to happen. Almost always, the ich will eventually win, its patient.

 

[Tin_Whistler]

Cleaner wrasse is cheap and could help manage ich and some parasites visible.

Ich is pretty small... Cleaner fish and shrimp won't do anything to get rid of them either.

Typically when you see one picking stuff off an ich infested fish it's going after the skin that's been broken from the cysts the parasites leave on the skin.

As for the garlic, rebuttal posted above, it can help the fish heal from the damage the parasite does. It will however in no way keep the parasite from attacking, and living on the fish.


Trying to manage ich is a terrible idea in my opinion, it's only a matter of time before they do what they're made to do, multiply and feed off your fish until they die.

Plus, I always look at it as I wouldn't manage the lice on my kids hair, nor the fleas on my dog or cat. Why do you want your fish to live with this?

 

[MrTuskfish]

Ich is pretty small... Cleaner fish and shrimp won't do anything to get rid of them either.

Typically when you see one picking stuff off an ich infested fish it's going after the skin that's been broken from the cysts the parasites leave on the skin.

As for the garlic, rebuttal posted above, it can help the fish heal from the damage the parasite does. It will however in no way keep the parasite from attacking, and living on the fish.


Trying to manage ich is a terrible idea in my opinion, it's only a matter of time before they do what they're made to do, multiply and feed off your fish until they die.

Plus, I always look at it as I wouldn't manage the lice on my kids hair, nor the fleas on my dog or cat. Why do you want your fish to live with this?

Well said! And head lice aren't even fatal; nor are the maggots they attract to feed on them. (Pubic lice have probably resulted in some homicides, though.)
Cleaners can't even get at the ich parasite; its buried well under the skin. the visible white spot is not the feeding ich. There just arent any easier, softer ways.

 

[macman7010]

I agree. I was just citing that garlic and proper nutrition are important for helping your fish prevent and heal from parasitic infections. In the open ocean ich is somewhat like a flea. The fish cannot remain in one area long enough to get bombarded with return infections. The closed aquatic environment turns that one its head and makes fish subject to serious infections. The best way to cure ich is to prevent it totally. QT is the only appropriate way to do this.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I agree. I was just citing that garlic and proper nutrition are important for helping your fish prevent and heal from parasitic infections. In the open ocean ich is somewhat like a flea. The fish cannot remain in one area long enough to get bombarded with return infections. The closed aquatic environment turns that one its head and makes fish subject to serious infections. The best way to cure ich is to prevent it totally. QT is the only appropriate way to do this.

Yep, if everyone used a QT; 90% of the threads in the disease section of the forum would never exist. I imagine this is a big reason for the very high turnover in our hobby. Sadly, I imagine we will still be having this same discussion 20 years from now.

 

[macman7010]

What is interesting is the low cost of a QT set-up when compared to the high cost of much of the fish livestock we keep. The purple tang currently in my QT cost triple maybe more than the QT set-up he is swimming around in for the next several weeks. These systems don't have to be elaborate. I use a simple 30 gallon long tank, a simple plastic aquarium decoration that allows the fish to hide, an algae clip and a heater. Filtration is accomplished by an inexpensive air driven sponge filter. I have several QT's on hand. Some hypo some treated with copper. Like you I assume the discussion will continue.

 

[davehos1]

You guys are right. There is no reason not to quarantine and I had to learn the hard way as well as my fish.I have a 55 gallon I can use and I think im going to set it up and put all my fish in for treatment.I have probably 400 dwarf ceriths, and various other inverts in the display tank; do i have to remove them for the 8 wk. fallow?What is best treatment for internal and external parasites?
Thanks,Dave

 

[MrTuskfish]

You guys are right. There is no reason not to quarantine and I had to learn the hard way as well as my fish.I have a 55 gallon I can use and I think im going to set it up and put all my fish in for treatment.I have probably 400 dwarf ceriths, and various other inverts in the display tank; do i have to remove them for the 8 wk. fallow?What is best treatment for internal and external parasites?
Thanks,Dave

Inverts can stay in the DT. Your "what treatment" question depends on the type of parasite. Do you know what your fish have? Ich, maybe? While in a QT, I think all fish should be de-wormed with Prazi-Pro; but that only kills worms.

 

[snorvich]

I hate to break it to you, but once that ich has been in the tank, it's there until you keep it fishless for 9 weeks.

To get rid of the ich permanently you'll have to treat all your fish for it. Garlic and Nori won't do anything to fix the problem.

Unfortunately, that is exactly the case.

 

[snorvich]

I agree. I was just citing that garlic and proper nutrition are important for helping your fish prevent and heal from parasitic infections. In the open ocean ich is somewhat like a flea. The fish cannot remain in one area long enough to get bombarded with return infections. The closed aquatic environment turns that one its head and makes fish subject to serious infections. The best way to cure ich is to prevent it totally. QT is the only appropriate way to do this.

Great post. Parasites, in general are a result of confinement and are exacerbated by it. It is why cryptocaryon irritans increases exponentially as it drops at night from the fish and the fish return to their sleeping location in your tank and get reinfected with the increased free swimming part of the life cycle.

 

[davehos1]

Thanks again guys,
Alot of useful info out there. I'm almost positive it is ich although he keeps looking better( powder blue). I hope a 55 g quarantine will be large enough for a pb tang,rabbitfish,7 chromis,flametail blenny,2 pajamas and a yellow watchman. Is this possible for six weeks without a skimmer?