Prodibio

Kirsten, I read the thread. So, are your affected corals up high in the tank? Could they be a result of too much intense light or a lack of water flow? Do all the corals have the tulip polyps or just a few.

If no, then maybe the tulip tips are just an ambiguos sign of stress, whether it be due to light, water flow, kalkwasser dosing, or even some of the probiotic dosing. Maybe the bacteria after consumption are irritating the corals.

Hmm, I wonder if it is gas:D Been awhile since o-chem, but I believe the breakdown of alcohols releases co2 gas. From what I understand, the bacteria (from dosing BioDigest) is consumed by the coral polyps, then the vodka fuel feeds the bacteria. If a gas is produced from breakdown of CO2, then it seems that the tips could swell from the released and trapped gases within the polyp tissue.

Where are the chem geeks when we need them?

I must be very tired to think of this. Gassy corals. . . hehehe :crazy1:

Any thoughts?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7610545#post7610545 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kirstenk
Just found this:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357215
Click to expand...

Good find! Looks as tho invincible569 went through the same thing i did.Changing flow only helped alittle, i still lost the affected corals.I wonder if he was just starting Zeo then or just before.i think the time line is about right.

cerreta
You might not be far off on the gassy coral thing.
 
BTW, I recieved a package in the mail today from Rob's Reef. The "extras" arrived. It was a 30pack of BioCLean. Needless, to say I was very impressed. His communication has been better too since I voiced my dissappointment, so at this point I am willing to try his store one more time, that is if the corals don't croak first. . . :D :(


Another thought: I have read that a few people, (can't recall who) thought they were overdosing the Prodibio and wanted to cut back dosing to every three weeks, rather than every two weeks. I think this is unwise. Bacteria grow in cycles. I recall reading from prvious probiotic litereature that the specific strains used have life cycles that peak and then drop. the replenishments are required every two weeks to sustain the efficacy of the bacterial cultures.

A better approach may be to dose less of the product and waste the unused portions of the vial. So, if you use 1 amp, try dosing every two weeks, but cut back to 1/2 vial. I recall the dosing was 1 ampule per 250gallons. Maybe 1/2 ampule per 250 gallons is more appropriate.
 
Hi Scott and all- thanks for inviting me to play! I'm in the midst of frantic packing for a trip at the moment, so I haven't gotten a chance to read the whole thread -7 pages, maybe I should have pretended I never heard of this thing ;) Anyway, I think I got the gist of it from Scott's PM, so I'll toss a few things out that come to mind, and delve deeper when I get back. I won't touch the product thing specifically as I am not too familiar with them and would want to read up more before I offered any thoughts.

But, with regards to the gassy corals and vodka, There are a few possibilities that pop up immediately. It seems likely that it is a microbial metabolism effect as has been suggested. Several possibilities exist. In this case, dosing with vodka, sugar, etc provides a nice carbon source for heterotrophic bacteria. One byproduct of their metabolism is indeed CO2. Feeding them will have the positive benefits associated with the product claims, but ingested bacteria will possibly produce CO2 in certain metabolic pathways. But, there are other possibilities (of course). The heterotrophic bacteria are a diverse bunch and not all are coral friendly. Certain strains of Vibrio are notable in this regard, and they will happily chug vodka etc like the rest, and often will destabilize the happy resident surface microflora and can cause tissue irritation, bleaching, and necrosis. The sugars they are consuming can also stimulate the formation of biofilms, an exopolysaccharide matrix that allows them to survive attack and become resilient within their big ball-o-snot.

But, then bacteria may not be the causes at all, but instead it could be the corals commensal endosymbionts; the dinoflagellate zooxanthellae that provide much of the coral's energy. Too much good food for them has been shown to increase the rates of division, photosynthesis, etc. Instead of producing CO2, they produce O2, and in this case, it can be too much of a good thing. It can lead to O2 accumulation in the tissues, as well as other even less desirable chemical species, such as reactive oxygen intermediates. Accumulation of hydrogen peroxide, nitric oxide, etc can be very damaging to coral tissues. Studies have demonstrated the forceful expulsion of zooxanthellae from coral tissues when grown under high nutrient conditions (bleaching). I guess an indication of whether this was the case would be to look and see if there were more cases of polyp extrusion in high-light parts of the colony, versus those that were shaded.

This isn't to say that dosing with these products is in any a way bad thing, properly used, they should have plenty of benefits, and it’s just a balance. It is an interesting phenomenon and I look forward to reading up on the whole discussion. The timing is good- I'm in the process of setting up a marine microbiology service laboratory mainly for aquaculture operations, but also for hobbyists. It should be running at test levels next week, and I'd be interested in looking at heterotrophic bacteria and Vibrio levels following dosing if people are doing this locally (to get good results, samples should be run within 8 hours of collection, preferably sooner). It might give a little info about secondary microbial processes and give me a chance to evaluate my methods too boot.
Ok, I think that is all a little overboard for one post! Back to packing.
 
Hee- yeah sorry to dump all that on you guys at once. Wanted to get out some ideas to chew over. Plus, I had to get even for the 7 pages of homework I have when I get back to keep up with all of you! See ya in a few days. Olin
 
olin. Didn't mean to infer that you dumped. Your response was great. It just shows me how much more can be known. Glad to have someone like you willing to add to us! :D
 
I have not finished this thread yet but I had to make sure I commented on this post

saltwaterfishlover said:
you must be mistaken... we dont have any advantage.....
we get your old people 6 months out of the year. we get all the illegal aliens.... the native language is spanish.... 3 months out of year we might have huricanes..... brake lights mean honk your horn and get out of my way.... turn signal means speed up and cut him off....I have 3 bald tires a flat and an empty radiator I can still do 90 and get where I am going no problem....

fla its got it..... and we want to give it back....

oh and blue haired people need a conditional license you must get to dinner before 4pm so you are off the road for rush hours...

lol
this is the most accurate description I have ever seen.
I always say welcome to florida, the worlds largest trailer park.
just a funny not for real please nobody take offense I am only really talking about a few people
 
I can't remember most of what has been said but I do remember more than one instance stating that soft corals and maybe lps do not like the system. I totally have to disagree. my ricordea look huge and amazingly colored. I don't have the best of anything but they look great to me for what they are. I will include a pic of a bunch of them. my xenia is still growing like mad like it always has no matter what I have done. maybe someday it will change but so far all is well. my toadstools are doing very well. one pure white polyps and one with very bright green polyps. my sps are doing well again but I dod go through an overdose on polyplab acids product. i know because I added according to manufacturers recommendations and after over a month of doing things went south fast and I looked at the bottles and I had put in the same drop numbers but used twice as much of the acids. I use 1 drop of everything but 2 drops of plus and evereything is responding very well. here is a few pics of what I am getting now


DSCN1969.jpg
[/IMG]
DSCN1888.jpg

DSCN1964.jpg
[/IMG]
 
time of starting prodibio was march 6th. I was more than likely one of the first to receive there order since I think I remember being 7th in line and only live a few hours away so I got it shipped in 1 day.
oh yeah another thing I saw in here is iwan uses zeostart or any other carbon source hasn't been correct for a few months . he told me and reported in the thread he only uses prodibio for a carbon source. I am sure that like most of us can change overnight but as of a few days ago it was only bioptim.
someone also said iwan doesn't have much light. I don't know the total par or ppfd of his set up but it is alot higher than some
think. t5's penetrate deeper than alot of metal halides when used with proper reflectors. he also has alot of bulbs in there. 12 or 16? I can't remember but maybe someone can find it fast. good thing with t5's is the watts per gallon from the good ol days has been thrown right out the window.
for example my current lighting set up is 432 watts total on a perfecto 265. thats a deep 31 inches and I have acros all the way to the bottom. I have toyed with the idea of adding more but I am reluctant so I can show people what can happen with an energy efficient lighting system.
 
I did not realize this thread is located in a private club form, URS.

Some members in the club believe this thread is frequented by nonmembers, I agree and am not a member, but would like to continue responding to this thread.

Can a moderator help us move this thread to the General Reef Discussion forum?
 
I thought this site was reef central and all pages are welcomed to be viewed and commented on by all reef central members. sorry if we intruded.
 
I don't think it matters which forum you post in on RC. I'm sure it would be courteous to consider the local club members' feelings, but on a topic like this one (a product we are all trying out), the more input the better.

jhmo.
 
Marc,
That is how I felt about the subject when i started this thread. I wanted to start a open research of Prodibio. I had no idea that this would turn into such a large spreading topic. I Pm'ed you originally because I was looking for some input because I was citing yur work. Then this has kind of snowballed into a national topic. If the better place is for this thread in the Reef Discusions then by all means move it.....FWIW I apoligize for the behavior of the URS. I didn't know that they would be so unwelcoming to browses from outside the club. I though ALL of Reef Central was a open forum for spreading education about reefkeeping.
I think I will also contact a mod. I am tired of all the backlash I am getting from club memebers.

BTW after 3 weeks I have brought a brown ugly piorties back from the dead. Its really starting to glow green. I will post some pics soon.

Thank You
Scott
 
No one from URS has stated anything other then this thread belongs in a diff forum where it would get better attention. I do belive many said it was a interesting topic but in the wrong place. There is no need to apologize on URS's behalf.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7625039#post7625039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bosborn1
Marc,
That is how I felt about the subject when i started this thread. I wanted to start a open research of Prodibio. I had no idea that this would turn into such a large spreading topic. I Pm'ed you originally because I was looking for some input because I was citing yur work. Then this has kind of snowballed into a national topic. If the better place is for this thread in the Reef Discusions then by all means move it.....FWIW I apoligize for the behavior of the URS. I didn't know that they would be so unwelcoming to browses from outside the club. I though ALL of Reef Central was a open forum for spreading education about reefkeeping.
I think I will also contact a mod. I am tired of all the backlash I am getting from club memebers.



Thank You
Scott
Click to expand...

I find it pretty sad that this would even be a issue.Much less getting backlash for it.:rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

thegasman2000
And Another Arduino Controller Build
Replies
3
Views
12K
thegasman2000
thegasman2000
deweyhowell
Temperature Question
Replies
8
Views
1K
deweyhowell
deweyhowell
S
40G Tall as a sump
Replies
2
Views
2K
spechty
S
landy
Landy's Kalk Reactor
2
Replies
22
Views
6K
outy
outy
watchguy123
SPS sale –Some true rarities, some beauties and a whole lot of colors
Replies
15
Views
2K
dodgerblew
dodgerblew
Back
Top